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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 21
09-19-2012, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckyll View Post
for example when you are level 50, the Dev's would let us fill up the exp bar. And simply separate the expertise for BO's from the exp bar, pretty much like it is/was.

If you keep dying repeatedly, simply put you de-level.

At that point, you either earn your experience back so you can get to use your lvl 50 ship/gear. or you stay somewhere in lvl 49 based on how many times you have died.

As far as the point of being "fair". My main character is a Tac, I use escorts myself, I know how much glass our ships are made of. But the point of it is that is the sacrifice we make to be a DPS class, so ultimately, it would force us to learn how to modify our skill-sets and try not to be the agro-whores that tactical escorts tend to be.
Ahh yes, the old EverQuest death penalty: Loss of XP and your level.


DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!

Or in this case:


"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 167
# 22
09-19-2012, 08:16 PM
There's times I miss those days. I really do BUT given how the industry and players are currently the XP loss would be a really bad bad bad idea. Especially with the reasons that were given to justify it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 605
# 23
09-19-2012, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckyll View Post
Now here is something some people may not agree with me on, but if it were implemented into the game it would make people learn their character classes, and learn the games mechanics.

snippity, snip snip

So, go ahead and start the flame wars about this subject.
Yeah.... Welcome to free to play dear OP. You're gonna interact with all sorts, the good, the bad and the ugly.

It's best not to upset all the nice players, (and their lovely disposable income), with pesky new death penalties and make them move on to another games out of anger and frustration.
"Your uniform is very... informative." -- The Doctor, to Seven of Nine
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 200
# 24
09-20-2012, 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckyll View Post
Now here is something some people may not agree with me on, but if it were implementedSo what I am suggesting, is upon character death, whether it is a ground or a space mission, is that there is an exponential experience death penalty.
this is not final fantasy xi. that kind of death penalty would not work here.

i agree that the accrued respawn timer is not working either. i hope that gets changed back.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,545
# 25
09-22-2012, 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by velktra View Post
Seems like it would be pretty unfair to escorts. I know how to fly my ship and play within my class, but I still blow up because my ship is apparently made out of shiny glass.
Zactly. Flying around in a glass cannon makes you vulnerable, but is often very needed to complete Elite STFs quickly. The OP simply didn't think his proposal thru very well. Harsher penalties for death will not encourage bettter fitting, but will only cause people to fly around in fail-fits, that tank like a mofo, so as not to die, but can't get the job done properly (and in time).

Also, and this is key, STO should never ever make the mistake of trying to turn their game into EVE Online; if you want harshness and absurd consequences (like losing your expensive ship, for ever), then simply go play the latter, and leave STO alone, please.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 185
# 26
09-22-2012, 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckyll View Post
Now here is something some people may not agree with me on, but if it were implemented into the game it would make people learn their character classes, and learn the games mechanics.

What I am proposing is, and has been tried and true on many other games. Some in the same forms, and some even more difficult.

But basically what I am suggesting is that upon death, especially in the higher end areas of the game, ship damage is not a solution, because clearly it is not working. And also an increasing timer for death on missions really is not working either.
So what I am suggesting, is upon character death, whether it is a ground or a space mission, is that there is an exponential experience death penalty. Some people may think this is harsh, but when it really comes down to it, it is not. It is far kinder to everyone else who is suffering at the hands of someone who either does not want to learn their character class, or is a troll and just wants to mess up the mission for everyone, since they seem to have nothing better to do. I am not saying people should be punished for making mistakes, what I am saying is that, if the same mistakes keep being made repeatedly, then perhaps your strategy or play-style needs to be re-evaluated.
For the first couple of deaths only losing a small percentage of experience would be no big deal. But from what I have observed repeated by alot of groups, is that they know on quite a few missions, that hell they really do not need skill so they just blindly rush into a fight to die and keep coming back to slowly whittle away at the nps's. This is NOT a strategy, this is called zerging. And quite honestly it involves no skill at all and, it offers absolutely no incentive for people to learn how to play their characters at all, and become overall a useful member to a team of players.
I do know that if something like this were implemented it would really upset people for awhile, but I know with certainty, that after awhile people would begin to be more careful with their characters and ultimately with EVERYONE's valuable time and play experience.


So, go ahead and start the flame wars about this subject.
I agree sounds good but I would only implement a punishment for "Elite" so its players choice and also introducing an Elite pvp map for the hardcore pvp's.

So if people didn't want a Death penalty they can just play it on normal also with a warning screen comes up if you change story missions to Elite difficulty or que for an elite stf or as above an Elite pvp match.

As for a Death penalty, you can't loose your ship entirely otherwise it would make the C-Store look like a bit of a scam but you could have your ship badly damaged so it needs to go back to space dock for 24hrs for repairs forcing players to use other ships they may have and also keeping the in mission repairs "Critical components etc".

I don't think we would see so many noobs in Elite STF's if they new if they did badly they would loose their ship for a day but at the same time if there was a death penalty for elites the rewards should be a lot greater.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 99
# 27
09-22-2012, 12:05 PM
This would be fine and dandy, but it would require a lot of players to rethink their strategies and how they play the game. Currently, ESTFs are all about top damage. A few escorts and carriers can get together and steamroll every one of them in just a few minutes. So far, this is the best way I've found to play, because it takes less time, there are fewer to no deaths, and it's chaotic fun. Even cruisers can participate as long as they're putting out. And in the long run, this makes player classes obsolete. Which is fine since very few players seem to know their roles to begin with.

As a primarily escort pilot, I can tell you that nine times out of ten, when I die, It's because I'm holding aggro on a team made up of cruisers and sci ships, none of which make any attempt to heal me. I've seen cruisers with threat control maxed out take aggro and actually tank while I tear into a tact cube. I've had sci ships pass me a TSS here and there. But a guestimated 90% of the time I play, these classes sit back away from the target, shooting their beams, and popping off their offensives, and being incredibly ineffective. And then I die. And then I die some more. Because the tanks aren't tanking and the healers aren't healing.

So what I am getting at is that before we start punishing the escort pilots for doing what they are supposed to, let's find a way to get other players to fill their roles more effectively and be team players. For one, all Cruisers should come with a threat boost. Engineers should get a threat captain's skill that draws fire. Science captains should get team heal captain abilities that only work on teammates and doesn't share CD with anything else. Basically, Cryptic should find a way to make these roles more intuitive and accessible, to encourage players to do their part. Put a shiny "heal somebody!" button in front of them. That's a start. Until that happens, OP, you gonna die.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 185
# 28
09-23-2012, 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephilim83 View Post
This would be fine and dandy, but it would require a lot of players to rethink their strategies and how they play the game. Currently, ESTFs are all about top damage. A few escorts and carriers can get together and steamroll every one of them in just a few minutes. So far, this is the best way I've found to play, because it takes less time, there are fewer to no deaths, and it's chaotic fun. Even cruisers can participate as long as they're putting out. And in the long run, this makes player classes obsolete. Which is fine since very few players seem to know their roles to begin with.

As a primarily escort pilot, I can tell you that nine times out of ten, when I die, It's because I'm holding aggro on a team made up of cruisers and sci ships, none of which make any attempt to heal me. I've seen cruisers with threat control maxed out take aggro and actually tank while I tear into a tact cube. I've had sci ships pass me a TSS here and there. But a guestimated 90% of the time I play, these classes sit back away from the target, shooting their beams, and popping off their offensives, and being incredibly ineffective. And then I die. And then I die some more. Because the tanks aren't tanking and the healers aren't healing.

So what I am getting at is that before we start punishing the escort pilots for doing what they are supposed to, let's find a way to get other players to fill their roles more effectively and be team players. For one, all Cruisers should come with a threat boost. Engineers should get a threat captain's skill that draws fire. Science captains should get team heal captain abilities that only work on teammates and doesn't share CD with anything else. Basically, Cryptic should find a way to make these roles more intuitive and accessible, to encourage players to do their part. Put a shiny "heal somebody!" button in front of them. That's a start. Until that happens, OP, you gonna die.
Hmm it gets quite difficult when you put it like that, how many times have my Tac toons died multiple times because I was in a team of "Rambo's One Man Army" lol. I love my Siege destroyer but if I'm in a fail team I will die the toon is built for dps not healing and I can pull aggro to easily with the amount of dps I can pull out of that ship.

As you said in your first paragraph about people not knowing their roles to begin with, One thing I have found is for some strange reason if they choose a different class of ship than what is designed for that class they seem to think they can use that ship the same way they would use on designed for that class. I had a heated debate with a fellow a while ago who wanted to use a Carrier with a TAc toon then proceeded to argue that a Tac toon could use a Carrier better than a Science toon. Last I checked they where built with Science Boffs in mind same as its console.

Now I'm not saying a different class can't use different class ships but you can't say a Tac officer can out heal a Science officer just because of the ship they may have. Hell I use an Escort Carrier on a Fed Engineer and a Cruiser for a Klingon Tac but there are some good reasons behind that and when I'm on my Engineer I heal and extend shields as often as I can where as my Tac in a cruiser well thats mainly cause I'm sick of dying because I don't get healed and I needed the extra console space.

Problem with people using different ships to different classes is a lot of people don't actually look at the color of your icon next to your name they look at the ship your inn and assume from there, yesterday I was in a cure pug in a Bortasqu instantly it was assumed I was an engineer and could tank, just lucky for me that ship can take a bit of punishment but I was tactical so I could dish it out especially with my new found love of missiles.

As far as implementing a Death penalty I reckon they could still do it for example for each class no matter what ship they are in have a minimum of what they have to achieve if not you cop the penalty. So with Tac there would be a min DPS to Deaths in a mission and the same for other classes given both Engineers and Science can heal just as effectively as each other I would keep the Engineers on heal and put the Science on debuffs.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 75
# 29
09-23-2012, 01:17 PM
Frankly, this idea won't work at all for ANYONE who solo games.

I persoanlly do have a fleet, I do have friends in the game, but I find it hard to meet up with folk at the same time for things. Frankly put, applying a penalty to something that is already grindy, is just going to make it MORE grindy...

TLR
No OP, just No
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