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Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
# 11
09-23-2012, 01:59 PM
Ah, yeah, the great myth that all this build and gear management crap somehow equals an MMO being about skill, and thinking, and being all strategic like this is chess. No MMO is chess, they all are pretty much unskilled entertainment like Tic Tac Toe.

Thinking is finding a way to adapt to a situation as you come across it, with what you have on hand. Typical MMO design just leads to go check the forums, and tips sites, for the 'uber' set up you need to get past scripted situation XYZ. Because unless you have 'uber' setup for XYZ, it doesn't matter how quick thinking you are, you'll fail based on the largely arbitrary design choices made for that objective. Sure, being prepared should play a factor, how you go at things should be a factor, your previous experience should be a factor, because you don't have skills and build XYZ (even though you had NO indication beforehand of needing them) shouldn't be a railroad to failing. When the original Deus Ex got this right, people called it brilliant open ended world design, now you do it and it is called 'dumbing things down' for the 'casual' players.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 290
# 12
09-23-2012, 02:24 PM
My suggestion: Stay at long range, going in reverse, and keeping the enemy in your forward facing. Your front shield will take a battering, but you really need to be set up for that flying an escort anyway. That particular enemy is extra nasty at close range. Also, flying in reverse, the enemy is more likely to run into your mines. (Hmm... I wonder if I should try that...)
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,737
# 13
09-24-2012, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
And this isn't an uncommon idea in MMOs: Damage, Tank, Healer. The Trinity has been around a long time.
It's around for a long time, but it's not a very innovative or good concept to start with.
A concept that doesn't work with Star Trek ships at all, it turns Star Trek ship relations/mechanic upside down.

The only thing about it, it's easy to understand .... i won't go into details i just have to easy my nerves.

OT: Try Attack Pattern Omega when tractored and stay behind your enemy..

Live long and prosper.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,617
# 14
09-24-2012, 11:00 AM
Cruiser taking on D'direx at the end of this mission:

1. Stay outside 5KM!!! Let me say it again: STAY OUTSIDE TRACTOR RANGE!!!
Beams are good for this. IF your Tac-Boff has Beam Overload, this is a good time to use it.

2. Keep your heals up if you're an engie.

3. Above, or behind, don't let him get you in his front arc.

4. Another good Tac-Boff ability is "Fire at will" for the torp spam. Heavy plasma torps are slow and can therefore be killed with beam fire...at range. If you get the shot off before his torp's cleared his sheild, it hurts HIM, not YOU.

5. PSW (what he is using to strip your shield) doesn't work if you're off-plane to the effect, this is reason #1 to stay "Off angles" to him.

6. When (not if) he uses an attack-pattern to get you in his nose arc, or close range, hit "Evasive manuevers" and jink away at off-angles.

7. BE PATIENT. #1 way to get your Heavy Cruiser or Cruiser killed, is to try and rush in like Captain Kirk to close range where he can grab you with his tractors and torp-spam the "I win" button.

The mission's not broken-my first Char. was an engie in (ugh) a cruiser with rainbows and bad console choices-still eventually beat this, but not without figuring out the AI's tendencies.

For a cruiser fitting at that level, go single-type energy with a supporting console that works in the tac slot, shield consoles in the sci slot, and RCS for engineering to get SOME nimbleness. the game is to fence-and-snipe against this guy, don't try to brute your way in because you aren't going to be brute enough to carry it off until you're a lot more experienced as a player, and a lot better equipped as a toon.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,005
# 15
09-24-2012, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
It's around for a long time, but it's not a very innovative or good concept to start with.
A concept that doesn't work with Star Trek ships at all, it turns Star Trek ship relations/mechanic upside down.

The only thing about it, it's easy to understand .... i won't go into details i just have to easy my nerves.

OT: Try Attack Pattern Omega when tractored and stay behind your enemy..

Live long and prosper.
i want to add, that you can have a dedicated tank in sto. on ground and in space. Only thing is, that it works best if it is the healer.
i definitely see a trinity system in this game, it is just obscured and mixed between the classes.

tank/healer and DD/CC, or Tank/CC and DD/healer, or CC/healer and Tank/DD (the last combo is not so reasonable imho, either you deal no dmg, or you won't survive only based on evasion skills)
the 3 roles are there, but mixed.
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 09-24-2012 at 11:45 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 16
09-24-2012, 04:05 PM
I ran that mission with a friend a few days ago. I was being an @#$ so I decided to let him take on the b-ship whilst I killed the mogai it came with on the team version. Sufficed to say, he is about as experienced as a newborn targ when it comes to fighting. But he beat it. I had to keep on reminding him to use his TT1 and to stop getting in it's forward arc (with lots of yelling and profanity on both ends, gotta love skype) but once he figured out that if you get to the side and rear of the d-deridex, all of a sudden you don't have heavy plasma torps appearing every 3 or 4 seconds.

So your best bet is to keep your distance to avoid getting tractored, stay AWAY from it's forward arc, and remember to keep on shooting down the torps. That's one thing newer players don't learn to do, DESELECT YOUR CURRENT TARGET AND TARGET THE TORPS INSTEAD. That is a MUST HAVE on skills. And HE1 is good to, just in case you do get a plasma fire, and something that is oft overlooked, BRACE FOR IMPACT. That will almost completely neutralize the torp damage as long as your shields are still up. And if your shields are not up, hit evasive maneuvers, get outside of 10k range, and then circle with your shield power at 100 until your shields are back up, then switch back to offensive and do again. The D'deridex is SLOW. So you can get away if you have to to repair.

Btw, if you're having trouble with this enemy, wait until you meet a scimitar. Then you get to have some REAL fun... So I suggest you listen to what these guys are saying, we're used to fighting very strong boss class enemies, and as such our tactics are sound.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 986
# 17
09-25-2012, 10:25 AM
The big thing I had to learn to get over the hump as far as combat in STO was using my skills. You should use every new skill you get, figure out what it does. Also, group them on the skill palette so that they make sense in where they are on your keyboard. For example: 3, 6 and 9 aren't together on the skill tray, but on the keyboard's number pad they are. I use those three (with the Ctrl key) to trigger AP Alpha, Tac Team, and AP Omega. Basically, all damage buffs (plus other effects), right in a row.

As I come into range on a target, I trigger them all, plus Cannon Rapid Fire. CRF pounds out their shields, then I sink a Torpedo High Yield into them. If CRF didn't take down the shield facing, I spin around and hit them with a Beam Overload from a rear beam array, then use High Yield from the rear launcher. I honestly don't have to think too tactically anymore, even with a D'Deridex, since my first pass will cripple or destroy just about any standard single player boss on Normal difficulty.

Is it the best setup ever? Probably not. I've certainly gotten grief from people about using rear beam arrays instead of turrets on an escort. My Boff layout probably doesn't fit the "gold standard" either. But whatever, I like it this way, and I'm not trying to compete in PvP.

So, you can play around with your setup, and the more experience you have the better you'll be able to do that. On your first character, as you're learning the game, you should probably stick to what's established and works. Follow a successful published build for your captain's skills (especially since respeccing a horribly botched skill tree will cost you real money). After you've been max level for a while, if you want to respec your captain or fool around with a second character, you'll be in a much better position to do so. You'll actually understand what everything does and how your decisions affect things.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 332
# 18
09-25-2012, 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
i want to add, that you can have a dedicated tank in sto. on ground and in space. Only thing is, that it works best if it is the healer.
i definitely see a trinity system in this game, it is just obscured and mixed between the classes.

tank/healer and DD/CC, or Tank/CC and DD/healer, or CC/healer and Tank/DD (the last combo is not so reasonable imho, either you deal no dmg, or you won't survive only based on evasion skills)
the 3 roles are there, but mixed.
tank/dd: armitage, about the only ship fed side that has enough slots for heals and can mount cannons.
all the rest are klingon, bortas'qu, negh'var...bop can shield tank but not really an ideal role for it as bleed through can cause issues. all require a tac though for serious damage, sci a close second.

won't mention anything on topic as everything has been covered already...the battleships really aren't that hard unless you think you can go in guns blazing like everything else up to that point. they will quickly teach you the error of your ways ^_^
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 19
09-26-2012, 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uilliamnebel View Post
Ah, yeah, the great myth that all this build and gear management crap somehow equals an MMO being about skill, and thinking, and being all strategic like this is chess. No MMO is chess, they all are pretty much unskilled entertainment like Tic Tac Toe.

Thinking is finding a way to adapt to a situation as you come across it, with what you have on hand. Typical MMO design just leads to go check the forums, and tips sites, for the 'uber' set up you need to get past scripted situation XYZ. Because unless you have 'uber' setup for XYZ, it doesn't matter how quick thinking you are, you'll fail based on the largely arbitrary design choices made for that objective. Sure, being prepared should play a factor, how you go at things should be a factor, your previous experience should be a factor, because you don't have skills and build XYZ (even though you had NO indication beforehand of needing them) shouldn't be a railroad to failing. When the original Deus Ex got this right, people called it brilliant open ended world design, now you do it and it is called 'dumbing things down' for the 'casual' players.
You're an idiot. I'd be more magnanimous and explain things in great detail, but frankly, you're not worth taking the time to.
Go back to Halo. There's no teabagging animation here, it's not the game for you.
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5
# 20
02-28-2013, 11:19 PM
Well, I"m struggling with the Calaf too. I'm in a Cruiser, and I dinged level 30 just before the fight started, so maybe the game assumed I'd be in a Captain's ship? Also, I was playing it on Advanced. I did *almost* kill the enemy a couple times, but I missed an incoming torpedo at the wrong time.

I get that we need to target incoming torps, but what do you do when there's a spread of a half-dozen? I've been trying Brace for Impact, Evasive Maneuvers, etc. Those work if they're not on cooldown. If they are on cooldown...sigh.

I guess I'll go back in my new Exploration Cruiser, on Normal level. Any other suggestions?
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