Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 41
09-12-2012, 10:49 AM
It would make sense and be welcome on MAH CRUZERZ, but it'd need to become self-only in the process.

Otherwise, it's just an open door to abuse.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 42
09-15-2012, 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
In Cure Space Elite APD I is invaluable when thrown onto the IKS Kang and combined with Tactical Team I and Transfer Shield Strength II. It can be the difference between winning or losing the optional when he is taking fire from the battle cruisers/raptors at the end of the mission. (If they managed to make it that far)
If it were invaluable, everyone would be using it.

To start with, BoPs and Raptors should never even get that close to the kang.

Let's assume they did.

I would say that TT 1 + TSS X is probably 10x more important than APD in that situation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
In many of the new fleet missions, APD I again very useful when combined with TT I. Not only does it provide a damage resist to the freighter, it also adds the blue FX to the enemy ships with the debuffs. Thus, the team is able to prioritize targets currently threatening the freighter.

APD and TT have absolutely no power synergy at all.

The resistance granted by APD is only for the ship's hull - Freighters are much better served with shield heals and straight hull heals (2 of which, out of the 3 available, add resistance as well).



Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
The same is true in No Win Scenario. Tactical Team I with Attack Pattern Delta I works in the same manner as with Freighters in the Starbase defense missions.
Again, APD has no synergy with the more important shield healing in this game.

If the Civ Transport in NWS is taking direct hull damage - you are already close to losing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
Now, imagine for a second you add a 500% Threat Generation to any one of the above listed targets.
To be clear, I do not want or think adding 500% to anyship except the caster of APD's should be implemented.

You should not be able to increase the threat generation of anyone but yourself imo.




So APD has a few, very limited and overly specific uses that are not really important or needed since players can complete all of the content you mentioned above with ease and never use a single copy of APD.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 650
# 43
09-21-2012, 08:13 AM
I, for one, would love for there to be some sort of aggro-generating skill in space that my Engineer in his Regent would have access to.

He's a purpose-built tank, but even with maxed TC, Mk12 weapons, over 100 power + FAW/Overlord + EPTW, there are times I cannot pull a target onto me when I want to.

2 ideas for this.

1: Make it kinda like Jam Sensors, but force the target to fire on you instead of whatever it's target was, giving people a Force Taunt in this game.

2: Make it a Reactive Threat skill. The more the enemy is shooting you, the more aggro you generate against them. So, you Force Taunt them on you and let them pound on you, and they'll basically be stuck.

C'mon Cryptic, how about some true tanking?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 896
# 44
09-26-2012, 07:51 AM
First off, for my tac at least, the purpose of AP: D on the freighter isn't the resist buffs on the freighter, it's the resist debuffs on the guys shooting at the freighter. I find that the debuff is enough to thin the herd of anti-freighter enemies quick enough to let the freighter succeed in it's delivery, even while soloing...

Meanwhile, TT I / TSS III from my Sci has to be "perfectly timed" to be of use, doing so at the beginning of the run rarely grants enough survivability to the freighter to complete the delivery, and it's a pain to lose the analysis bonus in order to save the freighter, since a lot of Sci's DPS comes from that bonus.

On that note, while this game could use some kind of "taunt" skill, is AP: D the place to put it, and is "transferrable threat" even a necessary mechanic? To me, the challenge of aggro management has always been for the tank to keep aggro in the face of glass cannon DPSers getting aggro from their actions. In this case, if the glass cannon DPS escort has a power to ensure that the tanky cruiser keeps aggro even in the face of maintained high DPS, this tosses the entire threat control mechanic on it's ear. Now, if, say, Aceton beam (engie power) was given the "taunt" function, this I could buy into. Also, if the escort wants the taunt to bail out the cruiser in times of need, then the escort could slot aceton beam (but I think it would need a slot-drop, as it's Lt Cmdr/Cmdr/Cmdr right now IIRC)...
50: S'Leth/Eurthyr/S. Dareau/Ardrian/Krudge/Annlova Not: Jadja
Still at it. CBS "restrictions" fell by wayside with freebie Breen. Time to re-examine ENT and ToS at tier 5, repurpose the Connie into Sci and rebuild an Akira escort into the "NX". 6 "eras", spread evenly over all the classes...

Last edited by dareau; 09-26-2012 at 07:51 AM. Reason: fixed inadvertent smilies
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
# 45
09-26-2012, 08:25 AM
If true tanking come into effect, how about a respects being made available for people who made engineering characters to fly cruisers be able to swap to science or tactical?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 46
09-26-2012, 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dareau View Post
First off, for my tac at least, the purpose of AP: D on the freighter isn't the resist buffs on the freighter, it's the resist debuffs on the guys shooting at the freighter.
You can do this by simply hitting APB and tapping BFAW.

That's a decent use, but it's still limited by quite a few things.

1) It's still only hull resistance.
2) You don't even need to kill the herd; pushing them (TBR), controlling them (GW, EWP), or even just shooting them with Threat Control so they shoot you instead all work. In fact, with threat control you'd be better using APD on yourself as now you are the target and NPCs shooting you would receive the debuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dareau View Post
Meanwhile, TT I / TSS III from my Sci has to be "perfectly timed" to be of use, doing so at the beginning of the run rarely grants enough survivability to the freighter to complete the delivery
I'm really not sure what you are referring to.

You have to time APD, and you have to time TT/TSS. They all have limited durations and would therefore need to be timed.

APD needs to be timed for when the NPCs hulls are exposed (friend or foe) - otherwise it does very little.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 650
# 47
09-27-2012, 12:24 PM
In the Blockade mission, there are always 2-3 enemies that will focus on the Freighter, regardless of how much Threat or DPS you put onto them, they will not change focus. Same for No-Win. There are enemies that will not even glance at you while the Freighter/Transport is alive.

The reason I want some sort of force-taunt for my space tank, is the fact that you will eventually get into STFs with glass cannon DPS that does have points in their Threat Control, or often, someone's build that is so top-end DPS that a beam Cruiser can't hold aggro regardless.

Well, the cube vapes them, thus cutting into the team DPS. If I had a force-taunt, I could take all that yummy plasma fire (Tastes like Green Apple, I swear!) no matter how mucky someone's skill tree was.
Constant exposure to the same opinions leads to continual reinforcement of ideas until eventually, any challenge, no matter what form it takes, is going to be met with a disproportionate sense of outrage. Room for reasoned discussion can no longer occur.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 48
10-01-2012, 08:43 AM
Some updates added to the original post.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 49
10-26-2012, 04:33 PM
I support the idea of adding threat generation to AP Delta. I prefer to fly cruisers, and while they can take a hit with more grace than an escort, that ability is completely wasted when the enemy isn't even shooting at you. So your choices to maximize a cruiser's capabilities are then either

1.) Dump points into Threat Control (NOT a cheap skill) and be forced to spend a bucket of zen to respec every time you want to fly anything that isn't a cruiser.

or

2.) Become a heal-barge so you can dump hitpoints into whatever glass cannon is doing enough damage to draw all the aggro.

Neither approach is... very nice.

Simply adding strong threat generation and/or "taunt" power to delta lets players chose to become the enemy's primary target when they want, in which ship they want. Some players have brought up interesting uses for Delta like escorting freighters, but ultimately I think we have to consider most likely usage cases here: patterns alpha, beta and omega are extremely useful and see widespread use while the support for pattern delta revolves around "Well it's useful in that one mission where..."

It also seems a little silly to rely on Delta to debuff enemies when you already have an attack pattern that does exactly that, except you can use it more often and it affects who you want it to affect immediately.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,344
# 50
10-26-2012, 05:19 PM
How about both options?
APD as a single target taunt somehow? It draws the attention of whichever enemy you are currently targeting and only if you are targeting an enemy or as soon as you target the next enemy during the power's duration.
This could be used by all classes and escorts as the only ones with the top rank of the power gain the most resistance benefit if they wish to use it. They will sure need it.

Cruisers should get their own taunt power. Though in their case I suggest a completely new one with an AoE effect to enhance their innate threat skill to practically irresistable levels for teh enemy NPCs (unless scripted otherwise).
Call it Duranium Shadows, which is a trick DS9 used at least once to fool the Cardassians into believing the station was heavily armed with torpedos.
Incidentally the Klingons thought the 5000 torpedos that Sisko actually had at the time were only Duranium Shadow trickery...
Ok, in those cases the intent was to make teh enemies cautious and back off, but it clearly made appear DS9 a bigger threat quite literally.
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