Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 141
09-26-2012, 06:59 AM
I don't like it because I'm terrible at it.

I've got four vice admirals and 2 years of (primarily escort) play under my belt, but I've never really been able to adapt my build or tactics for much success in pvp. Usually, I can't put a dent in cruisers before they wear me down, while other escorts out-turn me and then out-pace my dps.

I guess I was decent in Ker'rat, back when it was possible to repeat it over and over. Then there was incentive to put in the time to develop your tactics. The "war games" and "capture the flag" stuff is just not worth it when you have to slog through THREE 20+ minute battles to get that +/- 1,000 dilithium, and then it's on a daily cooldown. Ridiculous.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 176
# 142
09-26-2012, 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanover2 View Post
The "war games" and "capture the flag" stuff is just not worth it when you have to slog through THREE 20+ minute battles to get that +/- 1,000 dilithium, and then it's on a daily cooldown. Ridiculous.
Yeah, each PVP mode should reward a few hundred Dil at the end of every match. The EC and experience rewards are kind of pathetic as is for the time invested.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 377
# 143
09-26-2012, 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
They are scared to test themselves in an enviroment that does not assure thier success for fear they may lose and having lost they can not humbly accept thier defeat and attempt to overcome it through learning to achieve victory through hard work and experience?
Indeed.
I'm not a pro PvP'er myself, but I learned plenty of things through the PvP and it is very fun to play when team cooperates. It's incomparable to PvE.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 144
09-26-2012, 08:38 AM
Quote:
They are scared to test themselves in an enviroment that does not assure thier success for fear they may lose and having lost they can not humbly accept thier defeat and attempt to overcome it through learning to achieve victory through hard work and experience?
That is exactly right. I see it in the PVE fleet that I joined a few months ago to get in on the Fleet Ships. I brought a few of them into PVP and they were so bad.

Then they were very upset because they lost so very badly. They didn't understand how they could ROFLMAO Face Roll an Elite STF but get curb stomped by two BOPs... lol.

They imdiately blamed the broken KDF ships. So I had to teach them how to play in PVP. First move was to teach them all about tactical team. I'm now teaching them some basic key-binds to rotate buffs like EMPTS and EMPTW. Anyway... this is exatcly what happens. PVE gives players the false impression that they have learned how to optimise thier ships and skills to succeed against the toughest of challenges. In fact however, they have been wrongly given this impression by Cryptic who can't seem to make a challenging AI. And the only real PVE that is hard is the NWS.

/rant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 160
# 145
09-26-2012, 09:17 AM
No win is only hard because it's a huge mob.
Time played in game. as of 9/12/12 (on my mains) Total 2907 hours.K'zoontite has been on active duty for 34 days, 3 hours, Bot Fly has been on active duty for 55 days, 4 hours, Poppa Capp has been on active duty for 4 days, 12 hours, B'zooka has been on active duty for 12 days, 22 hours,Tater(fed) has been on active duty for 14 days, 10 hours,
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 146
09-26-2012, 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amidoinitright View Post
No win is only hard because it's a huge mob.
And as all "hard" pve that cryptic is capable of doing, it's a dps race where 5 escorts (or dps cruisers) have an advantage over a standard 2+2+1 premade. Plain stupid. But challenging though.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 147
09-26-2012, 09:33 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathos1978 View Post
Testing yourself in computer game is... strange. And games are for fun, so when someone does not find fun in PvP you leave. Why do something that is not fun?
Sometimes fun has to be taken through hardwork and pratice. To pit oneself against other living players within the parameters of the games mechanics is the essence of PvP.

Quote:
And as it is rather hard to have fun when you start PvP at VA and all you can do at beginning is to die - poeple don't like PvP.
The game doesn't support PvP through the ranks and that lack of support means the learning curve of trying at VA/LG may be too steep for some to slog through to get better and therefore enjoy it.

Quote:
Not to mention that most people have better things to do then to spend a lot of time tweaking their build and honing skills at pressing certain buttons in certain sequence. Most of "Kirks" just want their fun in Star Trek game. And expect simmilar fun from PvP. When PvP is "spent ho ho ho hours at learning it or die, noob" they don't like it. And leave.
Others find the tweaking fun though the rudeness and ego of some players can easily chase the newer players from PvP. How do you make the individual act less the ass? Somethings have to be learned how to be ignored.

Quote:
I think the only people who like STO PvP are those that either find it funny to learn about broken game mechanic and spent lot of time looking at their own heads at golden plate. And those who just don't care about being defeated and spend some time in Arena, Ker'rat or C&H flying around, shooting and leaving.
Actually I hate the broken game mechanics and I'm allergic to golden platters. Though I do care nothing about being defeated and enjoy the variuos Arena, CnH's and especially loitering in Ker'rat.
For some PvP is just not fun and never will be regardless of how its designed..
For others its not fun becuase they did poorly and could not accept it.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 148
09-26-2012, 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleon22 View Post
That is exactly right. I see it in the PVE fleet that I joined a few months ago to get in on the Fleet Ships. I brought a few of them into PVP and they were so bad.

Then they were very upset because they lost so very badly. They didn't understand how they could ROFLMAO Face Roll an Elite STF but get curb stomped by two BOPs... lol.

They imdiately blamed the broken KDF ships. So I had to teach them how to play in PVP. First move was to teach them all about tactical team. I'm now teaching them some basic key-binds to rotate buffs like EMPTS and EMPTW. Anyway... this is exatcly what happens. PVE gives players the false impression that they have learned how to optimise thier ships and skills to succeed against the toughest of challenges. In fact however, they have been wrongly given this impression by Cryptic who can't seem to make a challenging AI. And the only real PVE that is hard is the NWS.

/rant.
You did the right thing be helping them rather than letting them continue with the wrong impressions.
This unfortunately highlights a failing of PvP and its players, Many do not offer help without being asked and many of those who are new and nursing bruised egoes niether ask for help or accept it when offered (especially by those who just beat them)

Ego is the bane of PvP.
Its why we have posts crying about how tough PvP is, how unfair it is and even posts that now (and this is a new one for me) claim the old guard PvP'ers are purposely nerfing things to keep it to a cookie-cutter playstyle they like as oppossed to a more unorthodox open styles that other PvP'ers like.
Ego is the bane of PvP.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 149
09-26-2012, 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathos1978 View Post
Testing yourself in computer game is... strange. And games are for fun, so when someone does not find fun in PvP you leave. Why do something that is not fun? And as it is rather hard to have fun when you start PvP at VA and all you can do at beginning is to die - poeple don't like PvP.

Not to mention that most people have better things to do then to spend a lot of time tweaking their build and honing skills at pressing certain buttons in certain sequence. Most of "Kirks" just want their fun in Star Trek game. And expect simmilar fun from PvP. When PvP is "spent ho ho ho hours at learning it or die, noob" they don't like it. And leave.

I think the only people who like STO PvP are those that either find it funny to learn about broken game mechanic and spent lot of time looking at their own heads at golden plate. And those who just don't care about being defeated and spend some time in Arena, Ker'rat or C&H flying around, shooting and leaving.
You don't need to spend endless hours learning to PvP, unless you're a really substandard player who can't grasp certain basics.

I can't tell you how many ******n noobs I've seen flying around in cruisers without Tactical Team, RSP, or other essential tanking skills, or flying escorts without those skills (a death sentence). At best, they have EPtS1/2/3, Sci Team, and Eng Team. They don't bother to research just what the effing skills DO (something that is NOT that hard, most of it is on the wiki). Heck, all you have to do to negate my alpha strike in my Hegh'ta is snap up Tactical Team and maybe an EPtS skill, and do it quickly (assuming you're paying attention, you get about 2 seconds to react to me decloaking and firing). Boom, all the sudden I either have to run off and try again, or circle around you trying to chew through your shields. It's like that for a lot of players at my 'level' of playing.

You can't Kirk your way through PvP. That's the whole point, you actually have to know how to play the game, and how to get a reliable build going. I'm not a min-maxer or obsessive build-tweaker, I don't use P2W consoles, and I STILL get a few kills in and play my part. I pay attention and have a good sense of when to time my alphastrikes, and I know when to ask for advice/help.

If I can PvP properly in this game, then so can many other people. I'm not a high-skill gamer, and I can handle the PvP.

Also, why on Earth would ANYONE care about being defeated in PvP? I mean, really. Think about it. There's no reputation system, you don't suffer lasting effects from getting blown to pieces, and unless you're a constant presence in the queues or Ker'rat, you won't be remembered (I don't remember 70-80% of the names I come across in Ker'rat, especially the ones that don't know how to PvP). Why are people afraid of getting blown up? It happens. In EVE, I can understand. . .it's possible to get pod-killed in the null-sec areas and lose your character entirely. . .there's a reason to be concerned with getting blown up there. The only reason I care about avoiding destruction in this game is so that I can stay in the fight longer and assist others when needed, and keep up the pressure with hit-and-fade attacks. If people's egos can't handle having mere pixels blown up every now and then (or constantly, when they're still learning) and immediately replaced, good as new, then maybe they shouldn't effing play in an MMO at all, lest someone 'best them'.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 366
# 150
09-27-2012, 01:31 AM
Quote:
Also, why on Earth would ANYONE care about being defeated in PvP?
Because it's not funny. No, other way. It is funny when the match is more or less fair. Fair as in - two comparable teams against each others, with result looking like 12-15 or something like this. Then it may be funny. If it is 0-15 it is not funny.

And as currently getting into fair PUG is impossible - PvP is not funny. Or it is funny in 50% cases when you end in the group that slaughters the enemy. Or never if you are Fed and try FvK, cause to get competent Fed PUG in FvK is as possible as meeting a real Martian

Actually those are two reasons I stopped to play FvF Arena and FvK Arena and C&H. Cause I either landed in the team that killed everyone as soon as they showed on battlefield or on the team that was on the other end and died as fast as the other team could switch targets.

I play FvF C&H and like Ker'rat cause fights there are more even and even if you are killed you can see that this is not just a slaughter.

So - dying is not funny.
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