Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,251
# 31
09-26-2012, 01:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
And no, there should not be a Borg faction that has drones with individuality. That would make them cease to be the Borg. If you love the Borg, go play Armada again.
Yeah I played and modded that game for 11 years. STO can't even hold my interest for 1 year, go figure they don't make them like they used to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
Nope, you're wrong. The Borg are a collective and the Queen is the personification of that collective. She does not control the Borg, she is the Borg using a single female voice. Remember what the queen said in "First Contact"?

"You imply a disparity where none exists. I am the collective."

The Borg "designations" you speak of like the Queen or Locutus or 7 of 9 are actually controlled by the will of the collective. All their actions are compelled by the will of the collective and they cannot do otherwise. They are also the voice of the collective.

So no, you can't play as one of them and still have free will. They are not separate from the other drones. They just seem separate because they speak with their own voices and you mistakenly assume that means they have free will.

Keep persisting if you like, but know that you will never have this your way. No Borg for you.
I feel some fans don't understand the Borg at all, nor some Developers for that matter either.

You're right to the tee here. Hit the nail on the head. A post full of win there!
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
Cryptic is sloppy. Breaking News at 11. This is what happens when there is no outline or plan and you just make up **** as you go along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shredder75 View Post
We can tell our great grandchildren, "In my day, our cloaks were so sensitive that even dialogue broke them and we couldn't change our clothes!"
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
# 32
09-26-2012, 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsupertrekguy View Post
A Borg faction sounds cool, but wouldn't really work in-game.

How would you play if you had no individuality? Would the game "force" missions upon you and "force" you to complete them in a perfect way? How would you fly your ship if the collective controls their ships?

In order to create a Borg faction STO would either need to totally break Trek canon and invent some way that Borg have individuality or create a faction that you have to follow every single thing the collective tells you or you self destruct and end up saying "This game is not fun".
Borg individuality was made cannon by three episodes in cannon, TNG Descent part 1 and 2, Voy Unity and Unimatrix Zero part 1 and 2. Unimatrix could a good reason as to why we could play as borg and use borg ships. Food for thought
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 33
09-26-2012, 01:57 AM
Yes this would be cool but would not work in many many way's Mostly be cause Life subs all ready have a Liberated Borg Officer.First you guys where stuck on the Romulan's.

No we do not need a Borg Faction mostly be cause it would be point less.I have enough of a hard time keeping up with the KDF and Fed's if they come out with another Faction it will make it three times harder to keep up with 3 Faction's.

But yes we do need some thing new But it will not be Borg.The Borg are all ready Nerfed as it is.We do not need a Nerfed Faction.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,838
# 34
09-26-2012, 02:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi1701d View Post
Borg individuality was made cannon by three episodes in cannon, TNG Descent part 1 and 2, Voy Unity and Unimatrix Zero part 1 and 2. Unimatrix could a good reason as to why we could play as borg and use borg ships. Food for thought
All of those were not part of the collective.
In other words they were not actual Borg any more.

Either people want Borg in which case your own mentioned episodes don't apply or they don't want to play actual Borg.

OH BTW, it's canon, not cannon.
The former means it's an accepted part of the franchise's history while the other refers to a gun.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,251
# 35
09-26-2012, 05:25 AM
I say if you want a Borg go pay for a Lifetime Membership. They aren't that great (Alien and Joined Trill are better for gamers) but if it's what you want I can appreciate that and I say go for it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
Cryptic is sloppy. Breaking News at 11. This is what happens when there is no outline or plan and you just make up **** as you go along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shredder75 View Post
We can tell our great grandchildren, "In my day, our cloaks were so sensitive that even dialogue broke them and we couldn't change our clothes!"
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,697
# 36
09-26-2012, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
Nope, you're wrong. The Borg are a collective and the Queen is the personification of that collective. She does not control the Borg, she is the Borg using a single female voice. Remember what the queen said in "First Contact"?

"You imply a disparity where none exists. I am the collective."

The Borg "designations" you speak of like the Queen or Locutus or 7 of 9 are actually controlled by the will of the collective. All their actions are compelled by the will of the collective and they cannot do otherwise. They are also the voice of the collective.

So no, you can't play as one of them and still have free will. They are not separate from the other drones. They just seem separate because they speak with their own voices and you mistakenly assume that means they have free will.

Keep persisting if you like, but know that you will never have this your way. No Borg for you.
Soild Post. Now everyone that wants the Borg as playable can 'suck it up'

PS: Borg outside of the collective (such as mentioned above from Unimatrix) are no longer Borg. Once drones regain their individuality, they're essentially defaulting back to the species they were before, only with some vast cybernetic implants.

The Borg ARE a Collective mind. You can't have them any other way.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 39
# 37
09-26-2012, 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
Nope, you're wrong. The Borg are a collective and the Queen is the personification of that collective. She does not control the Borg, she is the Borg using a single female voice. Remember what the queen said in "First Contact"?

"You imply a disparity where none exists. I am the collective."

The Borg "designations" you speak of like the Queen or Locutus or 7 of 9 are actually controlled by the will of the collective. All their actions are compelled by the will of the collective and they cannot do otherwise. They are also the voice of the collective.
.
Did you even watch the same series or first contact? The whole point of those individuals was because they needed individuals with their own thoughts to come up with unique idea's because as the collective alone they couldn't do it. Plus even without those type of Borg's there's still the civil war that was caused by the malfunctioning Borg that involved Unimatrix Zero.

There's a reason she's called the 'Queen', in first contact she claims that she desires a semi-independent non-Borg being as an intellectual companion with Data........
Basically meaning that She's a certain type of that were moderatly indepedent, can hear the Borg thoughts separately while having her own agenda. She does not think as one entity with the Borg which is why she tells the Janeway that she told the Borg to keep away from Voyager which means she is an individual. She could of said we stopped but instead she choose to say she told them to not to. The normal drones always say something like 'we will assimilate' which we all know means we but not implying individualness.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 38
09-27-2012, 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoforce42 View Post
Did you even watch the same series or first contact?
You don't get it and I can see than you never will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoforce42 View Post
The whole point of those individuals was because they needed individuals with their own thoughts to come up with unique idea's because as the collective alone they couldn't do it. Plus even without those type of Borg's there's still the civil war that was caused by the malfunctioning Borg that involved Unimatrix Zero.
In First Contact, Picard assumed all of what you just said about the Borg needing a counterpart. He decided that it must have been the case. For all we know, the Borg only wanted Picard for his starfleet knowledge and later they only wanted Data for his knowledge too. How do you know that they wouldn't have continued as mindless drones as soon as they had outlived their usefulness?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoforce42 View Post
There's a reason she's called the 'Queen', in first contact she claims that she desires a semi-independent non-Borg being as an intellectual companion with Data........
Picard claimed it. Therefore everything else you have to say on the subject is pure feces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoforce42 View Post
Basically meaning that She's a certain type of that were moderatly indepedent, can hear the Borg thoughts separately while having her own agenda. She does not think as one entity with the Borg which is why she tells the Janeway that she told the Borg to keep away from Voyager which means she is an individual.
The Queen's agenda is the Borg's agenda. Each drone is swamped by the voices of the collective, its mind drowned out. So the Queen's head is filled with the voices of the collective. She is the collective. Simple, really.

And so what if the queen "told" the Borg to keep away from Voyager. That's the same as a mother withdrawing her hand instead of striking an unruly child. See how that works?
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4
# 39
09-27-2012, 02:34 AM
my two cents....

I really do love reading threads like this, its great to see people debating over something like this.

there are valid facts on both sides of the argument.....However.......


IF they did do a Borg faction then it would get very boring VERY fast...fly....assimilate.....land...assimilate.... .ect ect because those are the only missions you could do with any realism.....

but to offer a happy medium.....why not throw in to both the klingon and star fleet missions one where you become a part of the collective for a short while, not fully assimilated but i am sure with MAKO and omega force they could some "tech" that could filtrate the collective for a few missions.....however as a trade of you would get some borg tech as rewards for the char your playing as?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 247
# 40
09-27-2012, 09:02 AM
i dont know if it was this thread

but i suggest an alternative to a faction, which is if you want to "borg out" or somethng

your borg, your on the enemy team in stf's and pve's

you get to see all fedewration communica'

you have a star base to go to but its just race assimilated borg standing around sand you can to, and type like, i am borg . before getting botred and going back to an STF or pve to get bored to

and if your like the best bvorg you get a sphere for pvp

no changes needed

no faction mneeded

to get unassimilated lose to a science ship- but you have to go out of that instance

these are the facts

they are irrefutable
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