Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 1 Oversize bases
09-27-2012, 11:34 AM
I have noticed that all the Star Trek canon bases are oversized except for Earth Spacedock. Earth Spacedock is 1/2 size smaller than it should be because the doors are supposed to dwarf the Galaxy with but in this game, its not so. Meanwhile the Deep Space 9 and K7 are oversized. Deep Space 9 in this game is 3 times the size it should be and have 1/3 as many windows as it does in the show. K7 is like 10 times the size it should be. In TOS the K7 Station was barely larger than 3 Constitution class ships. You can't say that K7 was upgraded since it was just uncoverd from cloak 2 years ago, and that that style of design has not been in use since TOS. As you look at TOS, the Motion Picture movies, TNG, and the newer movie, you can see that Earth Spacedock has been changed and upgraded to fit the current Flag ships. Since the Odyssey Enterprise is not wider than a Galaxy Class, then there is no need to make Earth Spacedock bigger than canon. It would nice if they brought Earth Spacedock's size up a tad to reflect the true canon size so it can easily fit the Galaxy Class through the doors.

Its funny that all the new Starbases, including the fleet ones, are small and don't have hangars or docking bays that can fit even the smallest starhip. They are more the size of outpost stations than starbases.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 315
# 2
09-27-2012, 12:05 PM
This discussion has been going on forever. To be fair, the dev's did justify this based on canon sources. ESD has seemingly changed sizes several times to suit the ships flying in/out. DS9 has also magically changed sizes when Galaxy class starships started popping up regularly, but before that was roughly to scale with the Defiant. So it's not completely the dev's fault here. The blame is with CBS for taking creative liberties when making their props all fit together. STO has just expanded on that.

Except for K-7, the size issues on this station is on Cryptic. But then if K-7 was sized correctly (should be about the same size as Connie) the non-trekkers would cry foul when they saw it since most people expect their starbases to be bigger than the ships they fly.
Kobayashi Maru
Join Date: Sept 2008


"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 3
09-27-2012, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobayashlmaru View Post
This discussion has been going on forever. To be fair, the dev's did justify this based on canon sources. ESD has seemingly changed sizes several times to suit the ships flying in/out. DS9 has also magically changed sizes when Galaxy class starships started popping up regularly, but before that was roughly to scale with the Defiant. So it's not completely the dev's fault here. The blame is with CBS for taking creative liberties when making their props all fit together. STO has just expanded on that.

Except for K-7, the size issues on this station is on Cryptic. But then if K-7 was sized correctly (should be about the same size as Connie) the non-trekkers would cry foul when they saw it since most people expect their starbases to be bigger than the ships they fly.
Actually the Galaxy Class Enterprise was the first Starfleet ship to dock with DS9 and the Defiant didn't show up till season 2 or 3. In this game the Defiant is scaled up in comparison to other ships. Its supposed to be smaller than it is in the game. DS9 has looked tha same size in all the shows until they put a bunch of CGI ships then the scales get messed up because CGI's don't have an acurate size in comparison to real models. The station was a real model.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,369
# 4
09-27-2012, 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Its supposed to be smaller than it is in the game.
No, its not.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ar...t-problems.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ar...size_table.htm

Also any smaller and you might as well called it the Doraemon class since it sure as hell it would need to have a dimensional pocket to store the shuttlepods.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 5
09-27-2012, 07:43 PM
Why are you even arguing? You don't even watch DS9 or read Star Trek material, other wise you would have recognized the size differences with the various ship classes. Here is the Defiant flying around the USS Lakota and you will see that it pictures the Defiant class smaller than the one in the game.

Ref. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Excelsior_class

Next time bring actual manual material or data from an official canon site, not some blog that furthers the argument.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 804
# 6
09-27-2012, 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Actually the Galaxy Class Enterprise was the first Starfleet ship to dock with DS9 and the Defiant didn't show up till season 2 or 3. In this game the Defiant is scaled up in comparison to other ships. Its supposed to be smaller than it is in the game. DS9 has looked tha same size in all the shows until they put a bunch of CGI ships then the scales get messed up because CGI's don't have an acurate size in comparison to real models. The station was a real model.
actually the scales became more consistant after they switched to CGI, because they could render all the ships at once. Before, when they were using models, each ship had to be composited separately, so scales were very often inconsistent. The size of Deep Space Nine is one of those things that is constantly in flux, because the model is only five feet wide and the ship models are way bigger, whenever you see a ship docked on the station in the show it is a composite shot. The models are not physically connected. Even after they made the switch to CGI, they continued to use the physical station model.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,343
# 7
09-28-2012, 03:22 AM
Actually ESD kind of uses a trick in game I think.

If you fly up to the door with a Galaxy zoomed in very close the door seems impossible small, but if you zoom all the way out it resembles the shots from the show and the Galaxy fits through nicely.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 8
09-28-2012, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f9thaceshigh View Post
actually the scales became more consistant after they switched to CGI, because they could render all the ships at once. Before, when they were using models, each ship had to be composited separately, so scales were very often inconsistent. The size of Deep Space Nine is one of those things that is constantly in flux, because the model is only five feet wide and the ship models are way bigger, whenever you see a ship docked on the station in the show it is a composite shot. The models are not physically connected. Even after they made the switch to CGI, they continued to use the physical station model.
I found out yesterday, while reading about the Dominion's new Battleship, it was shot as a model and CGI, depening on what they did with it. They shot it as CGI when it was an in close strafing shot of the USS Valiant and the battleship. In the final Battle of Cardasia even though it was immersed with ships all around it, the Battleship was shot as a model. That being said, most of the docking shots, if not all, were done with modadels. Many of them are old shots from when they first showed that type ship docked and they just reuse them for new scenes.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,006
# 9
09-28-2012, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
I found out yesterday, while reading about the Dominion's new Battleship, it was shot as a model and CGI, depening on what they did with it. They shot it as CGI when it was an in close strafing shot of the USS Valiant and the battleship. In the final Battle of Cardasia even though it was immersed with ships all around it, the Battleship was shot as a model. That being said, most of the docking shots, if not all, were done with modadels. Many of them are old shots from when they first showed that type ship docked and they just reuse them for new scenes.
Which is why the actual size of Spacedock is so contested. The scene where we see the Enterprise-D dock with spacedock is the same exact sequence as the as the Enterprise-A's dock with spacedock, just with the D pasted over the top.

Lot's of this stuff happens is Star Trek.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 10
09-28-2012, 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timelord79 View Post
Actually ESD kind of uses a trick in game I think.

If you fly up to the door with a Galaxy zoomed in very close the door seems impossible small, but if you zoom all the way out it resembles the shots from the show and the Galaxy fits through nicely.
I did a full zoomed out overhead view and saw tha the door was barely 1/6 wider than the Galaxy. If you look at same overhead view of the Enterprise-D docking you would see the door is at least 1 1/2 to 2 times wider. Look at the episode in TNG, "11001001."
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