Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,177
# 51
09-10-2012, 08:57 AM
So, I'm well into Season 4, and I've determined it is the writing for the most part. For the rest, I think Bakula is so pissed at the writing, that his performance carries over into the areas that the writing isn't at fault. Of course, it might be the directing. It is sad that Bakula was used so poorly. Archer is still only a step above Janeway, and he shouldn't have been.

My new complaint is that they should have gone on and developed the T'Pol - Trip relationship instead of constantly hinting at it.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 52
# 52
09-27-2012, 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by general1devon View Post
Archer was perhaps the best Captain of them all, and Enterprise was the best series. Archer was a realistic captain, aboard a realistic ship, the series was more down to earth, never before had we saw Starfleet at such an early time, everything was new with them, Military and Diplomatic tactics from Earths past wouldn't work the same on different new species. And the NX-01 unlike the other ships, say for Voyager, was mostly alone. the Columbia wasn't completed til late in the series, and Enterprise explained somethings that other series's has left a mystery, as for the borg they were left over from when the borg went back in time, as they did several times. the JJ film has nothing to do with any of this, say for Archer and Porthos were mentioned. stop trolling against Enterprise and Scott, it was the best, most realistic series, it even showed references to Khan and Data

I totally agree with what you say here, i also think that Archer was the best captain of them all and Enterprise was the best series but yes, the writing could have been done better but yes also it was cancelled wayyy too soon. But it did start kinda slow but IT DID GET BETTER. You have to remember during Archers time era starfleet just basically got started way before the creation of the Federation of Planets, which brings us to the episode of the borg (regeneration), those borg are the ones that was from the movie First Contact which takes place after the Federation has been created, thus Picard goes back in time yadayadayada and so on. And to the comment that something about Enterprise and JJverse version, like you said this has nothing i repeat NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JJ FILMS because JJfilms takes place duing Kirk and Spock's time era. So to end MY OPINION why i think that Archer and Enterprise was/is/maybe the best of the franchise it just shows how earth and starfleet was dealing with exploration at the beginning part of the stages. And i think that Bakula was the best choice to play as Archer.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,394
# 53
09-28-2012, 05:01 PM
I really don't want to get drawn into an argument, but these are my personal thoughts on Starfleet's history with the Borg...

After the events of 2135, any remainders of the 'alien technology', after Archer's reports, it would most likely either been destroyed, or put into secure storage at Starfleet Command, but probably not given the highest of priorities. There was no specific timing given as to when the El-Aurian homeworld was destroyed, or how long the refugees had been in transit (remember, that they are an extremely long lived species, so travelling for decades would not be an issue for them, so there's no reason why the homeworld might not have been somewhere in the Delta Quadrant and they had simply traveled that distance to escape Borg Space) Knowing how bureaucrats think, it's quite possible that Starfleet Command had not only 'lost interest' in the 'alien technology' when the Enterprise-B was launched, but also due to sheer arrogance, would have thought "We can only hit Warp Nine, so no one else can go any faster, so what threat can they be?" and mistakenly catagorized the 'alien species' as no direct threat. By 2350s, given changes in officers at Starfleet Command, it's likely that the 'cybernetic race' and any remaining technology, was pretty much forgotten. Much like how Londo pointed out in Babylon 5 that orders can be carried out long after the reason for the order being issued is forgotten. I suspect that the Hansens were considered as being on the fringes of the scientific community, and that it may have been easier for Starfleet to have simply given them the Raven just to shut them up and get them out of the way, rather than deal with repeated requests for information/equipment access etc. Imagine the scenario, of Magnus Hansen in a meeting with some irritated rear-admiral desk jockey:

Magnus: "Have you been able to send a ship to the Neutral Zone to check out those sensor anomalies?"
Admiral: "No..."
Magnus: "I really think you should do, Admiral, this may well be the first signs of Their activity in two hundred years..."
Admiral: "It may also be nothing, Professor Hansen... I can't allocate a starship just to track down a sensor ghost of something which has not been seen in two hundred years."
Magnus: "But what if this is Them? We need to make analysis and studies. You have to send a ship to investigate!"
Admiral's glance falls on a data PADD containing specs for an extremely long-range shuttlecraft...
Admiral: "If I agree to assign a ship, will you stop submitting daily requests for access to sensor records?"
Magnus: "Absolutely, Admiral, that's all I want..."
Admiral: "Fine. Here is a ship, now stop wasting my time, and get that brat out of my office before she damages any more of my bonsai collection!"

Could have happened...


If Starfleet Command still did not consider the rumors anything more than a two hundred year old ghost story used to scare cadets on their Midshipman cruises, it certainly didn't consider it enough of a threat to start issuing warning orders to its Captains... Given how Project Defiant got mothballed due to 'engine issues'/as Starfleet considered the Borg threat to have receded, even when it really had not, that shows perfectly the bureaucratic mindset of "It's been dealt with, so it's dealt with, no need for continued vigilance, because we're the Good Guys, and we're Kick Ass..." If that same thinking had prevailed in 2153, well, it makes two centuries of apathy totally plausible and understandable... Q, on the other hand, knew of the danger, knew the Federation wasn't prepared, didn't want his favorite pets killed, so gave them a kick in the pants to try and wake them up, without being too obvious about it (because he wouldn't want Picard to know that he was actually doing them a favor, unless it was begged for) Even the Enterprise-D's encounter with the Borg wasn't enough to shake Starfleet Command into action on the issue, or Project Defiant would have been immediately put into action, and Wolf 359 would have gone down very differently. Again, bureaucratic arrogance, plain and simple...

That's about all the sense I can make out of the retconned history, feel free to agree or disagree As for Archer as a captain, I can sum up the issue in two words: Brannon Braga.

I used to really admire his rise from a spec-script writer to producer, but he got too self-indulgent and too focused on telling His Stories, and didn't have anyone to keep him in check, Enterprise being the result...

I would like to raise a glass of Romulan Ale to Magnus Hansen for having the faith to stand by the courage of his convictions *cheers*

Last edited by marcusdkane; 09-28-2012 at 05:44 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 54
09-29-2012, 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by praghas View Post
Aside from this being in the wrong section, I like Scott Bakula in it and thought he did a great job. A starship captain isn't about being the best pilot, but the best person.
I 100% agree, sure he was not the perfect captain, but no one is and he did the best job possible under alot of circumstances. The actor Scott Bakula did an excellent job. I wish they went on for another season or did what the stargate franchise did and do dvd tv movies.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 55
09-29-2012, 05:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
I really don't want to get drawn into an argument, but these are my personal thoughts on Starfleet's history with the Borg...

After the events of 2135, any remainders of the 'alien technology', after Archer's reports, it would most likely either been destroyed, or put into secure storage at Starfleet Command, but probably not given the highest of priorities. There was no specific timing given as to when the El-Aurian homeworld was destroyed, or how long the refugees had been in transit (remember, that they are an extremely long lived species, so travelling for decades would not be an issue for them, so there's no reason why the homeworld might not have been somewhere in the Delta Quadrant and they had simply traveled that distance to escape Borg Space) Knowing how bureaucrats think, it's quite possible that Starfleet Command had not only 'lost interest' in the 'alien technology' when the Enterprise-B was launched, but also due to sheer arrogance, would have thought "We can only hit Warp Nine, so no one else can go any faster, so what threat can they be?" and mistakenly catagorized the 'alien species' as no direct threat. By 2350s, given changes in officers at Starfleet Command, it's likely that the 'cybernetic race' and any remaining technology, was pretty much forgotten. Much like how Londo pointed out in Babylon 5 that orders can be carried out long after the reason for the order being issued is forgotten. I suspect that the Hansens were considered as being on the fringes of the scientific community, and that it may have been easier for Starfleet to have simply given them the Raven just to shut them up and get them out of the way, rather than deal with repeated requests for information/equipment access etc. Imagine the scenario, of Magnus Hansen in a meeting with some irritated rear-admiral desk jockey:

Magnus: "Have you been able to send a ship to the Neutral Zone to check out those sensor anomalies?"
Admiral: "No..."
Magnus: "I really think you should do, Admiral, this may well be the first signs of Their activity in two hundred years..."
Admiral: "It may also be nothing, Professor Hansen... I can't allocate a starship just to track down a sensor ghost of something which has not been seen in two hundred years."
Magnus: "But what if this is Them? We need to make analysis and studies. You have to send a ship to investigate!"
Admiral's glance falls on a data PADD containing specs for an extremely long-range shuttlecraft...
Admiral: "If I agree to assign a ship, will you stop submitting daily requests for access to sensor records?"
Magnus: "Absolutely, Admiral, that's all I want..."
Admiral: "Fine. Here is a ship, now stop wasting my time, and get that brat out of my office before she damages any more of my bonsai collection!"

Could have happened...


If Starfleet Command still did not consider the rumors anything more than a two hundred year old ghost story used to scare cadets on their Midshipman cruises, it certainly didn't consider it enough of a threat to start issuing warning orders to its Captains... Given how Project Defiant got mothballed due to 'engine issues'/as Starfleet considered the Borg threat to have receded, even when it really had not, that shows perfectly the bureaucratic mindset of "It's been dealt with, so it's dealt with, no need for continued vigilance, because we're the Good Guys, and we're Kick Ass..." If that same thinking had prevailed in 2153, well, it makes two centuries of apathy totally plausible and understandable... Q, on the other hand, knew of the danger, knew the Federation wasn't prepared, didn't want his favorite pets killed, so gave them a kick in the pants to try and wake them up, without being too obvious about it (because he wouldn't want Picard to know that he was actually doing them a favor, unless it was begged for) Even the Enterprise-D's encounter with the Borg wasn't enough to shake Starfleet Command into action on the issue, or Project Defiant would have been immediately put into action, and Wolf 359 would have gone down very differently. Again, bureaucratic arrogance, plain and simple...

That's about all the sense I can make out of the retconned history, feel free to agree or disagree As for Archer as a captain, I can sum up the issue in two words: Brannon Braga.

I used to really admire his rise from a spec-script writer to producer, but he got too self-indulgent and too focused on telling His Stories, and didn't have anyone to keep him in check, Enterprise being the result...

I would like to raise a glass of Romulan Ale to Magnus Hansen for having the faith to stand by the courage of his convictions *cheers*
The defiant was made after the battle of wolf 359. Also still they did not have alot of information on the borg back then. I agree even if the threat had been reduced I would still make some ships in case. But now days in star trek almost all the ships are designed to fight some why against the borg and other races.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,394
# 56
09-29-2012, 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
The defiant was made after the battle of wolf 359.
Yes, that is my point exactly. Project Defiant was not put into action early enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
Also still they did not have alot of information on the borg back then.
Even discounting the historical archives which should have existed from Archer's time (but we'll ignore the historic retcon for a second) the fact that there was a confirmed encounter with a Borg cube, which was more than a match for a Galaxy Class starship, someone at Command should have put the wheels in motion for Project Defiant as soon as Picard's debriefing was concluded...

The point I was making, was Starfleet's historic apathy towards the Borg threat, and unwillingness to be pro-active in taking a stance against it. I guess that's why when the Jem'Hadar took out the Odyssey, they decided to not make the same mistake again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
I agree even if the threat had been reduced I would still make some ships in case. But now days in star trek almost all the ships are designed to fight some why against the borg and other races.
Absolutely so, it's just common sense, and yes, I would even be willing to go up against a cube in a Nova Class ship, given what I know about Borg tactics (which one would hope/assume any captain worth their salt would know... ) Not saying things would get very far beyond 'Resistance is futile...', but even a Nova Class ship would at least have some tactical abilities which could be employed against the Borg

Last edited by marcusdkane; 09-29-2012 at 03:42 PM.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:41 PM.