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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,884
# 31
09-27-2012, 01:33 PM
I've been reading a lot of hate on these things all over the board and at first I didn't understand either. But reading a few logically written posts have given me the following position: They are useful no matter what's inside, but only if I want it. If I do, then it's going to cost me something to get them. It's the most basic economic principle - there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And yet I get to play the whole game for free? Well no, it costs me time to play the game (not to mention all these posts to learn to play the game effeciently or better - thank you community!).

I recommend players really evaluate what they need versus what they want. No one needs these ships, they just want them. Mixing up a want with need is what causes the frustration.

In my humble opinion.
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol - Endless Excelsior - Veritatum Liquido Cernene

Solaris build
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 116
# 32
09-29-2012, 08:59 PM
Personally, my problem with the lockboxes is the master keys are too expensive. Even the "Cheaper" keys are too expensive.

If I were to grind out all that dilithium to do it, 8k / day is still too much effort to spend it on a key for a lockbox. I'd rather use that dil to get zen and buy oh say... another ship that I know for a fact I will get.

I'm not one for spending my hard earned money / dilithium on something that costs 100 zen for a "chance" at a ship. Now if they dropped the master keys down to 10 - 20 zen per key (to make keys more affordable for the hundreds of boxes I end up with every night), then I'd personally probably open more. But as it stands, the price of keys is the killer for me and I'm just not willing to spend 100 zen for "a chance" (and not even a good one) at something I want.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 214
# 33
09-29-2012, 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by lazarus51166 View Post
lets also add in the fact that according to california state law this amounts to gambling, and its being encouraged for minors to participate.
The lockbox is not a lottery, it is a grab bag. There is a distinct difference. Grab bags are perfectly legal. Elementary schools in California even use them as fundraising. You arguement is based on incorrect information.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 35
# 34
09-30-2012, 06:18 AM
Fixed my wall of text. My apologies. lol

Last edited by cptlankford; 09-30-2012 at 06:21 AM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3
# 35
10-05-2012, 04:15 PM
Personally I'm going to jump out of my own airlock if I get another damn duty pack and a few scant crystals while anything good is 800 lobi's away?

I've been playing a while, and I personally feel very ripped off at most of the gimmicks and rehashes that STO continues to belch out.

Most of my fleet has left the game, feeling the same way.

I'm cancelling my gold account and prolly won't be returning here anytime soon. I've been a beta player on Battlefield Play4free for a long time.

Just like I have been here a long time.

I have a blast by myself and with friends over there. I sit here board watching trolls in chat and non-informed pugs over saturating the "elite" stf's.

Lot's of luck to ya STO but my money is going to those who listen and have met most of (at the least) my expectations since the start... You have not even for a month.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 97
# 36
10-12-2012, 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
However, from what I observe, the LOUDEST complainers essentially blame Cryptic for what amounts to a gambling addiction they have no inclination of even TRYING to contain or curb. They usually swear off lockboxes for all eternity... and then buy 200+ keys every time one comes out, rinse, repeat. Every. Time.

Video gaming has spent the better part of 20 years to get itself out from the perception of 'gaming' as in gambling. There are laws about gambling, and we wanted out of those laws precisely because video gaming was not gambling. Making video gaming in gambling is bad for the entire industry.

And I say this seriously, as someone who makes games for a living and does quite a lot of research on games, one of the very serious questions with MMO design is what to do about people with addiction issues. Is someone playing your game 70 hours a week destroying their life, or is this the only chance they have at some sort of life for whatever reason? Are you exploiting someones mental disorder for your own personal benefit, is that ethical and legal, and should it be? If you make a game that says on the box "10 character classes" and you get into the game and it only has 3 that's fraud, but you might be able abscond with the money before anyone can bring a class action lawsuit against you. With what PWE and cryptic are doing it's more nuanced to be sure, but it's still feeding off of all the things that can be bad about MMO design and is basically dishonest.

The lockboxes in general run into a lot of problems, which is why they sell you 'points' rather than lockboxes. They're almost certainly legal in California, but I'd be surprised if they're actually legal in, for example, Quebec, or much of europe - where the laws around gambling are much more stringent and PWE is colliding headlong with government monopolies on gaming and government prohibition on online gambling and so on. In effect you're buying a chips for a casino that can also be used at a restaurant. The restaurant can serve children, or well, anyone - but the slot machines are off limits to some people for various reasons.

In practical game design terms my complaint about the lockboxes is mostly about the very uneven distribution and that the lobi crystal rewards are actually separate items from the lockbox rewards (as opposed to say a minimum threshold so you can always get the rarest item for no more than 200 lockboxes for example), but at least the good stuff is tradeable and so can be acquired more efficiently for people not into the gambling side of things some other way. It's a confusing system and not at all obvious to a lot of people the scope of options available or what is better or worse - that's bad design as is the extremely rare nature of some of the rewards.

That it necessarily exploits people with addiction problems is probably criminal and not allowed for sale in a number of jurisdictions is another problem.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 37
10-12-2012, 07:31 PM
I don't understand the community either, why bother opening these things? They really aren't better then Fleet ships anyway aside from the Jemhadar ship which has a slight edge over the Fleet Defiant in some ways, but not much. Other then that the Fleet Recon Sci ship is better then the Wells, the Fleet Defiant, is better then the Destroyer, the Fleet Torkaht is better then the Galor or Marauder, the Karfi or Voquv is better then the Recluse, and all Fleet Sci ships are better then the orb weaver.

Why even bother.

Nothing I need or want from that Lobi store either, even if the prices were to go down.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
# 38
10-14-2012, 04:11 AM
i don't know why people complain about lockboxes i just sell them on the exchange for a small fortune after you can't find them through loot any more
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 145
# 39 its a big big world
10-14-2012, 05:27 AM
Originally Posted by trekkietravis View Post
The lockbox is not a lottery, it is a grab bag. There is a distinct difference. Grab bags are perfectly legal. Elementary schools in California even use them as fundraising. You arguement is based on incorrect information.
another thought... people from all over the world play this game, i doubt California law would much matter in the end. They would just stop letting you play or cut out the USA altogether and give them there own boring server before they would alter their successful business plan. California does not seem able to balance its own budget so i would not lean towards taking their business advice anymore than i would their morality if it was up to me.

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