Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 11
10-04-2012, 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Um no, an optimal PvE build (STF build) would go 'boom' so fast in PvP it is not even funny. Let me just list a few abilities that have a completely different value between the two.
If you had posted anything resembling an optimal PvE build you would not have received such harsh criticism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
If you wonder why PvP in this game has seen so little attention and why the vast majority of the player base has little interest in it I suggest you ask yourself: "Would I want to play a game with someone who acts like me?"
I like him. He's cranky sometimes, and blunt, but often he's right.

Let me turn your question around on you: would you want to enter an STF with a team running 5 copies of your builds? I wouldn't. I don't think they could complete an optional in any STF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Nah TBR gets used mostly for CSE raptors. And even then rarely but it is nice to have.
So you shove it 20k away. It slowly creeps back towards the Kang, and in the meantime another wave has spawned. Now you have a larger group of NPCs to deal with. This is boneheaded. If you're lucky it doesn't get shoved behind, above, or below the Kang and end up on an attack vector that your team isn't watching. But it probably will.

Yeah, I PvP, and I think your builds are awful, but I also wouldn't want you on my team for an STF. Your intentions for these builds make you a liability. It's not just the builds that demonstrate a lack of understanding about STFs, in particular elite optionals, it's the descriptions of how you use them that fails like a soup sandwich.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 12
10-04-2012, 07:37 AM
Even when you're trying to be smart you get everything wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Sci Team: PvP great, PvE waste
Science team is an excellent burst shield heal, and in that capacity works good in both PvE and PvP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Epower to Shield 3: PvP great, PvE waste
Wrong. If you waste a Lt Cmdr. slot on EPtS 3 you are a bad player, doesn't matter if you are playing PvP or PvE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Fire on my Mark: PvP junk, PvE great
It's not junk at all, but you do need to know when to use it. In either case, as a captain ability it's a moot point -- Tactical captains work well in both PvE and PvP so you're stuck with it either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Sub Nuke: PvP great, PvE waste
Again, being a captain ability and not something you chose to slot invalidates your point. And in the only challenging PvE in this game, the No-Win scenario, it does help to have one or two copies of science fleet, scattering field, and sensor scan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
The 'optimal' PvE build has just enough tank to survive with everything else focused on DPS.
Also wrong. One of the many reasons that PvErs and RPers fail so hard at PvE is that they don't cross heal or support each other very well. The fact that you say "tank" instead of "healing" betrays it as well. PvPers work as a team, and can afford to min/max more than PvErs who are oblivious to everything happening around them. Optimized PvP builds are better than self-centered ones across the board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Its pretty frelling simple, tac/escort + DHC + CRF + APB.
CRF? Wrong again. Correct answer is CSV. And while it's true that the STFs work great with five escorts, the same can't be said of the No Win scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
"I PVP so I am great and PvE players are morons"
Because of this game's faceroll-level PvE you guys develop a lot of stupid ideas and the game lets you get away with it. Ego and confirmation bias takes care of the rest. The majority of you guys aren't morons, but your understanding of the game is moronic none-the-less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
If you wonder why PvP in this game has seen so little attention and why the vast majority of the player base has little interest in it I suggest you ask yourself: "Would I want to play a game with someone who acts like me?"
It might have to do something with:

  1. No PvP development since launch
  2. Pitiful rewards from doing PvP
  3. PvE that doesen't teach people how to play
  4. Advice threads like this making people even worse

The most ironic thing here? There are some things that work a lot better in PvE than PvP and vice versa, you just happened to miss every single one of them. That's why PvP builds are always better than PvE builds -- PvErs are largely incapable of making good builds for anything. The carebear nature of STO PvE denies you guys the ability to see if your builds are good or not. If for some reason a PvE build is better than a PvP build in PvE, it's only because it was built by a PvPer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scbypwr View Post
Why dont you contribute and give us a pvp build then.

You know...an alternative!
Sure, but later, if Ricky doesn't beat me to it. I need to get some sleep.

Last edited by hurleybird; 10-04-2012 at 07:46 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 999
# 13
10-04-2012, 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
The Support-a-Scort (Science)
MVAE Escort
Deflector: Borg
Engine: Borg
Shield: Maco
Weapons: 3x DHC/1 DBB, 3x Turrets (polaron)
Eng Consoles: 2 armor
Sci Consoles: Borg, 2 Flow Capacitor
Power Levels: 90/60/25/25

Tac 1: Tactical Team 1
Tac 2: Tactical Team 1, Attack Pattern Beta 1
Tac 3: Target Weapons 1, Cannon Scatter Volley 1, Target Shields 3, Attack Pattern Beta 3
Eng: Emergency Power to Shield 1, Emergency Power to Shields 2
Sci: Hazard Emitters 1, Tractor Beam Repulsars 1 OR Siphon Energy 1, Tykens Rift 2 OR Gravity Well 1

And again you think I'm crazy how does this support a team?

Attack Pattern Beta 3 is the single best support ability in STFs. 50% more damage to target hull. For everyone. Stick with the team and watch the targets melt. It also helps out your Photonic Fleet and stacks with good old Sensor Scan.

You can also bring enough CC with a single TBR to save the day, just remember to use your evasive maneuver ability to push 'em a good 20k away while its up if you want. And while you cannot keep a target's shield down for the entire fight without a few lucky polaron procs you do lower their resistance and regeneration amount so it is still very useful. And did I mention the +50% team damage theirs that too. Just keep in mind you are not extremely tanky so watch yourself in a bad pug. And use an Auxiliary Battery before using Tyken's Rift.

If you want you can swap out the shield/engine/deflector for jammie set for DPS or omega for glider but then you go from not much tank to tin-foil tank so it is up to you.
My take, pure PvE player:

1. Drop the DBB, replace with torp of choice (photon/quantum).
2. Drop the target weapons skill (no beam now), replace with torp spread 1. Drop target shields 3, replace with CRF 2. (yes, I know you want a "no CRF build", but at the same time 1/2 the targets in STFs don't have shields (and 1/3 don't have weapons), but enormous piles of HP you need to chew through ASAP.
3. Go with the alternates on your two choices (energy syphon & GW). GW is better at CC than TBR, because it clusters the opposition into one small area for the CSV/Torp spreads to do their work, even better when the team tosses a friendly assist. Energy syphon is a decent "big target" power, combined with polaron procs you might be able to put a decent level of disablement on the target, however, I'm more inclined to recommend a second hull heal as you can't rely on borg set proc and one HE to keep you alive if/when you manage to draw any kind of aggro.
4. Have two power settings - 90/25/25/60 for "general" work, the aforementioned 90/60/25/25 for bigger targets / rare times you have aggro. Even then, if you have a 1/2 way decent team that can keep aggro off of you, you might never need to switch to the 90/60/25/25 set...
5. Why flow cap consoles? Energy syphon? I don't think flow caps really influences the polaron procs, but I could be wrong, haven't flown polaron in the "new" environment much. I'd recommend 2x sci shield boosters instead (the + to shield cap ones), to help prevent hull hits (which this build is ill prepared for in the first place).
Well, with the upgrade announcement leaving NX and Connie fans in the dust again, can we restart / revisit the T5 Connie and NX threads - since they will no longer be "truly" endgame ships... (after we get the T5 versions, it'll be time to see them added to the T5U upgrade charts too...

Last edited by dareau; 10-04-2012 at 07:51 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 14
10-04-2012, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Nah TBR gets used mostly for CSE raptors. And even then rarely but it is nice to have.

I did try mines on the tank-a-scort and they didn't pan out that well, but they were not the Tri-Co ones I will have to give that a try as the torp doesn't see too much action typically.

As for DPS all 3 ships deal plenty when used properly. I suggest you give 'em a try.
Oh my word I can't stand when someone brings TBR to an STF... So very very annoying.

Stop pushing my targets 20k away. Damn 3 rounds of cannons and I would kill it if I don't have to go chasing it down 40k away.

You want to run something crazy that is pve only... throw a Gravity well on a mvam... suck up ALL the spears at one time... evasive through them and drop 4 tric mines on there head with DPB 3. Even in with a subpar engi that will likely take them all out. That is outside the box thinking in an STF.... not using TBR to just push things all over the damn place.

TBR for raptors in Cure man this is why I don't pug STF Ellites... if your team doesn't have the dps to remove a couple raptors, it must be mind numbing.

Anyway I don't mean to rag man have fun flying what ever you want. Just know that things like TBR to push the targets all over the darn place annoy most people. I'll take a team of limp cruisers doing nothing but watching me complete the darn STF faster then they have ever seen... over a team of TBR pushing engi scorts.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 951
# 15
10-04-2012, 08:40 AM
At least he could use the TBR's in No Win Scenario. So that's a positive for his build!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 160
# 16
10-04-2012, 09:13 AM
It's multi-role, by the way, not multi-roll. I thought we finally got a barrel roll emote or something. I got all excited. Imagine my disappointment.

However, that was the least of the problems with your post. I wouldn't want to be in an STF with your build as a teammate.
Time played in game. as of 9/12/12 (on my mains) Total 2907 hours.K'zoontite has been on active duty for 34 days, 3 hours, Bot Fly has been on active duty for 55 days, 4 hours, Poppa Capp has been on active duty for 4 days, 12 hours, B'zooka has been on active duty for 12 days, 22 hours,Tater(fed) has been on active duty for 14 days, 10 hours,
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 17
10-04-2012, 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post

Science team is an excellent burst shield heal, and in that capacity works good in both PvE and PvP.
It's a very poor burst shield heal unless it's ST3, even then it's only use is when you're shields are virtually down all around. TT1 is far more effective.

Quote:
Wrong. If you waste a Lt Cmdr. slot on EPtS 3 you are a bad player, doesn't matter if you are playing PvP or PvE.
You can use one and you won't lose your healing proficiency, it's only when you take 2xEPTS3 that you're being a noob. Also it's not just cruisers that can use EPTS3 now.

Quote:
It's not junk at all, but you do need to know when to use it. In either case, as a captain ability it's a moot point -- Tactical captains work well in both PvE and PvP so you're stuck with it either way.
There's a gap of 5 seconds where you can actually use it. Chances are even perfectly timed it'll go to waste unless the target is held down and totally disabled. By which point he'd probably be doomed already, FOMM or no FOMM.

Quote:
Again, being a captain ability and not something you chose to slot invalidates your point. And in the only challenging PvE in this game, the No-Win scenario, it does help to have one or two copies of science fleet, scattering field, and sensor scan.
Again though he's right. Baring slowing the firing rate of the target, SNB is of very little real use in PvE since so few NPCs actually use any buffs worth removing.

Quote:
Also wrong. One of the many reasons that PvErs and RPers fail so hard at PvE is that they don't cross heal or support each other very well. The fact that you say "tank" instead of "healing" betrays it as well. PvPers work as a team, and can afford to min/max more than PvErs who are oblivious to everything happening around them. Optimized PvP builds are better than self-centered ones across the board.
With very small exceptions, you don't need to cross heal in PvE. Even a tac in an escort can tank a tactical cube or a gate.

Quote:
CRF? Wrong again. Correct answer is CSV. And while it's true that the STFs work great with five escorts, the same can't be said of the No Win scenario.
CSV does less damage then CRF and is pretty much situational. Great for dealing with probes and spam, but not anywhere near as good as CRF for dealing with single targets.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending the Ops post, that is a terrible build.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai

Last edited by orondis; 10-04-2012 at 09:19 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 160
# 18
10-04-2012, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
CSV does less damage then CRF and is pretty much situational. Great for dealing with probes and spam, but not anywhere near as good as CRF for dealing with single targets.
You fire CSV, you do 70% of the damage to multiple targets. say you hit 5 of them. 5x70= 350% of the DPS. ending the match much faster & helping get the optional. Other than fighting some of the cubes it's pretty easy to fire at multiple targets through most of the Q'd PVE.
Time played in game. as of 9/12/12 (on my mains) Total 2907 hours.K'zoontite has been on active duty for 34 days, 3 hours, Bot Fly has been on active duty for 55 days, 4 hours, Poppa Capp has been on active duty for 4 days, 12 hours, B'zooka has been on active duty for 12 days, 22 hours,Tater(fed) has been on active duty for 14 days, 10 hours,
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 19
10-04-2012, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amidoinitright View Post
You fire CSV, you do 70% of the damage to multiple targets. say you hit 5 of them. 5x70= 350% of the DPS. ending the match much faster & helping get the optional. Other than fighting some of the cubes it's pretty easy to fire at multiple targets through most of the Q'd PVE.
As I said, it's situational. Great for dealing with mobs but nowhere near as efficient as CRF when dealing with one.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,897
I really hope new players dont make beam boats of their escorts. I came up with a PvP anti spam build for my defiant that works great for PVE.

3 dhcs
Quantum torp

2 turrets
1 tricobalt-or torp of choice or 3rd turret

TT1, CSV1, TS3, CSV3
TT,1 APB1 or APD1, ?PO1
HY1
EPTS1, RSP - OR Aux2SI1
HE1, TTS2

3 piece borg set with Maco shields.

If you're in a group with a healer you can use the omega set but if you're puggin it you want those borg set procs.

I actually popped 2 players at once in a Cap&Hold using decloak and Alpha. Imagine what it could do to a group of NPCs!! Also you have the advantage of shooting down incoming torps, swarms of shuttles or other spam in PVE or PVP without having to target.

This is not my main build for PVP. I use CRF with no quantums but against klinks or fed carrier groups it clears the spam while still doing enough dps. Easy enough to swap my build and tray in less than 35 seconds. Perfect for groups of NPCs or STFs.


If any new players have any questions or need help feel free to PM me ingame.
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