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Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 263
When healing is so overpowered????

What in God's name are players supposed to do without a SubNuc of some kind, or MANY KINDS to get around the type of healing that current ships are putting out????

It's not just the healing but also the STACKING mitigation, it is just getting ridiculous...

Either there are noobs who pop instantly or there are people getting stacked mitigation, (which are virtually impossible to kill w.o some kind of buff strip)... there seems to be no in between.

If I am the only one having this experience, then I apologize for over-reacting. However, these experiences of firing constantly against impenetrable shields are just tedious and kills the entire PVP game for me.

Also, I don't own any SubNuc doffs but good lord... I would really like to get some because without them there is just no getting through stacked mitigation from self, AND other teammates, (and possibly support craft.)
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 2
10-06-2012, 08:51 PM
They wipe attack buffs and over-time offensive powers just as fast as they wipe heals and resistances.

They are utterly degenerate in their design and implementation and do not expand or enhance PvP mechanically in any way, shape, or form. If healing is over the top, making a DOff everyone should use to counter it, one which greatly degrade's the usefulness of a Captain in a team composition, is not the right ****ing answer to the problem.

[edit]

JM2c.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 263
# 3
10-06-2012, 08:55 PM
The reason that the subnuc doff exists in the first place is because of the overpowered state of healing and mitigation in this game... Nerfing the subnuc doff is attacking the manifestation of a larger issue.

Sub Nuc is required because buffs are insane and this shines in PVP. Without Sub Nuc, fights would last forever due to insane mitigation and healing. Therefore, Sub Nuc DOFF was added as a high end way to plow through stacked buffs, (for Tac Captains.) That is how I see it.

Last edited by freedumb4eva; 10-06-2012 at 08:58 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 4
10-06-2012, 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
The reason that the subnuc doff exists in the first place is because of the overpowered state of healing and mitigation in this game... Nerfing the subnuc doff is attacking the manifestation of a larger issue.

Sub Nuc is required because buffs are insane and this shines in PVP. Without Sub Nuc, fights would last forever due to insane mitigation and healing. Therefore, Sub Nuc DOFF was added as a high end way to plow through stacked buffs, (for Tac Captains.) That is how I see it.
No the sub nuke doff was added pretty much at the launch of doffs. Its from the first batch of doffs... at that time some moronic dev thought a doff with a 2.5% chance to strip all buffs and stack to 3 would be a great idea. The community stood up then and said this is in fact very moronic. So they decided to smack them down to 1%... and the fact that they where pretty rare most everyone moved on to complain about more pressing matters.

Then they decided to have them drop like candy out of the cardy boxs... and now people are understandable annoyed about teams running around with 10+ doffs in a game.

They 100% remove skill from the game. They nuke all buffs not just defensive ones... if a team is focus firing the escorts with a bunch of these doffs they very are going to shut down any offense that team has... sounds like a good way to increase a teams defense to me... well unless the other side is packing 10+ doffs as well... at that point frankly the game is won by who ever lands the most procs... yay fun.

Borticus is looking over the doffs now, it has a nerf coming and frankly they deserve one.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 263
# 5
10-06-2012, 09:14 PM
...and when is the nerf coming for stacking mitigation and heals?

Nerfing the sub nuc doff without tampering with the mitigation/heals in the game is ridiculous.

Then there is literally no chance of getting through heals/buffs without a sci on the team and waiting for the CD on sub nuc and hoping to alpha strike through twitch reactions of healers...

I guess PVP in STO just isn't for me then. It has become less about skill and more about who can remove buffs or who can apply the most buffs, imo.

The reason that the doff was added was likely due to the ridiculous heals and buffs that are available. There is no other recourse against them for Tactical Captains.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 6
10-06-2012, 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
...and when is the nerf coming for stacking mitigation and heals?

Nerfing the sub nuc doff without tampering with the mitigation/heals in the game is ridiculous.

Then there is literally no chance of getting through heals/buffs without a sci on the team and waiting for the CD on sub nuc and hoping to alpha strike through twitch reactions of healers...

I guess PVP in STO just isn't for me then. It has become less about skill and more about who can remove buffs or who can apply the most buffs, imo.

The reason that the doff was added was likely due to the ridiculous heals and buffs that are available. There is no other recourse against them for Tactical Captains.
Then make a thread about what could be done to stop the overhealing in this game.

Or bring a science captain and actually work as a team.
Also keep in mind that a lot of the super healing is a result of the doff system as well. Brace for impact doff being the biggest offender.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 7
10-06-2012, 09:20 PM
Frankly if you can't bring yourself to team with at least one sci then yes STO pvp is not for you.

A team full of sci 5 nukes or not is not ideal.
A team with 5 tacs is also not idea.
Engies... well they have some issues, having said that we often run a team with at least one engi. They are the one class that could use some work, having said that... the fact that a team doesn't need more then one isn't game breaking.

Yes go figure a good team in pvp would include all 3 classes... its crazy to think that every captain type has a role to play... and every ship type has a role to play. Man what was cryptic thinking with that design. lol

Honesty there are ways through mitigation that does not involve Sub nukes... its called team work. The only way to end up with resistance stacks is to get help from teammates... why is it so crazy to think that the counter to that is a team that controls and times there offensive buffs... and no I am not talking about 100% focus fire here. There was a time that all you had to do to win in STO pvp was focus fire... focus focus and focus. Frankly that is not how it works anymore... if your team is 5 guys shooting at one target... you will loose.

Honesty if you are not willing to adjust to the meta game... and build your teams to achieve victory. (which means not a bunch of tacs with crutch doffs)... well then yes you are correct this is the wrong game for you.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 723
# 8
10-06-2012, 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
Frankly if you can't bring yourself to team with at least one sci then yes STO pvp is not for you.

A team full of sci 5 nukes or not is not ideal.
A team with 5 tacs is also not idea.
Engies... well they have some issues, having said that we often run a team with at least one engi. They are the one class that could use some work, having said that... the fact that a team doesn't need more then one isn't game breaking.

Yes go figure a good team in pvp would include all 3 classes... its crazy to think that every captain type has a role to play... and every ship type has a role to play. Man what was cryptic thinking with that design. lol

Honesty there are ways through mitigation that does not involve Sub nukes... its called team work. The only way to end up with resistance stacks is to get help from teammates... why is it so crazy to think that the counter to that is a team that controls and times there offensive buffs... and no I am not talking about 100% focus fire here. There was a time that all you had to do to win in STO pvp was focus fire... focus focus and focus. Frankly that is not how it works anymore... if your team is 5 guys shooting at one target... you will loose.

Honesty if you are not willing to adjust to the meta game... and build your teams to achieve victory. (which means not a bunch of tacs with crutch doffs)... well then yes you are correct this is the wrong game for you.
Very well said.

Teamwork is the most OP thing in STO.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 9
10-06-2012, 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
When healing is so overpowered????

What in God's name are players supposed to do without a SubNuc of some kind, or MANY KINDS to get around the type of healing that current ships are putting out????

It's not just the healing but also the STACKING mitigation, it is just getting ridiculous...

Either there are noobs who pop instantly or there are people getting stacked mitigation, (which are virtually impossible to kill w.o some kind of buff strip)... there seems to be no in between.

If I am the only one having this experience, then I apologize for over-reacting. However, these experiences of firing constantly against impenetrable shields are just tedious and kills the entire PVP game for me.

Also, I don't own any SubNuc doffs but good lord... I would really like to get some because without them there is just no getting through stacked mitigation from self, AND other teammates, (and possibly support craft.)
And what about the players that aren't healboats and zombies? What about people flying BoPs who have dirty-fighting A-holes subnuking them left and right? What about people flying escorts but don't have the best-of-the-best equipment or skill, and thus are unable to tank nearly as well as the likes of, say, Jedi Master Yoda? If subnukes were only used against the people that 'needed' subnuking (escorts that inexplicably resist all attempts to blow them to cinders, while shredding enemies effortlessly), there might not be such a problem. As it is, it's being abused.

Last edited by travelingmaster; 10-06-2012 at 10:19 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,390
# 10
10-06-2012, 10:34 PM
There are no perfect solutions, and every system in the gaming industry has items in their rules that can be, and will be, abused.

SNB Doffs have aggro'ed a lot of attention in part because of a quirk in the RNG has made them extremely common.

But the OP has a point about the builds in PvP where someone could take, say, a lightly built escort and absorb more damage without harm than a Dreadnought-the only counter available, is to attack the buffs, and teh only mechanisms for doing so are ALSO incredibly, viciously, overwhelmingly OP when applied against, say, a 'normal' or casual build.

What balances at the very tippy-top end, overbalances or overwhelms anything NOT at the tippy-top end.

Funny enough, when SNB's are in play on both sides, it ends up, as being a mix of Procs (which must be applied by hitting your target) and flying (in order to avoid being hit, or to get weapons into position TO hit.)

i.e. it ends up going to the player, not the gear when the geardoes are neutralized because the Buffs have been stripped off of both sides.

a situation that, if someone has spent C-store money for just the right consoles, dil. for all the right consoles, respecced 'Just so" and loaded up on the current best-in-show weapons, really does hurt-You don't SEE high-end players or high-end fleets running lower tier ships in Kerrat, you don't see it, because the paradigm is "More is better".

How much of your INDIVIDUAL success (not team success) is due to the Buffs and Gear you're running? Can you be AS successful in a new character, running a lower-end ship?

kind of a tough question, since the paradigm is that "he with the most/best Buffs wins", and anything that BREAKS that paradigm is BAD.

Such as SNB Doffs.
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