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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,796
there are 2 types of fleet ships, those that are based off ships that were at tier 5 when the fleet system was introduced, and those that are not. the first type, like the fleet patrol, fleet vorcha and the like have higher then standard shield mods. when checked, no mater what the shield you check it with the shield mod is correct.

the other type of ships, the originally tier 2 and 3 ships, well they are tricky. they come with a lower then normal shield mod, but they also have a hidden bonus shield mod as well, so when you attempt to calculate the actual shield mod, its different for every shield. thats because this hidden bonus is on a curve, and the curve favors low capacity shields.

so, figuring out exactly what this hidden bonus is would be next to impossible on our end. here are some actual findings in numbers. these were done on ships with no capacity boosting consoles and 9 to the shield hitpoint skill tree skill. first i'll mention my fleet ktinga and fleet heavy cruiser have the exact same mod and exact same curved bonus mod, the omega and borg shields both had the same per faceing numbers

base line vorcha R with 1.0 shield mod

mkXII KHG tool tip: 8431.5
mkXII KHG per faceing: 10961


mkXI omega tool tip: 6259
mkXI omega per faceing: 8137


borg tool tip: 5250
borg per faceing: 6825



fleet vorcha with 1.1 shield mod

mkXII KHG tool tip: 9724.6
mkXII KHG per faceing: 12057- 1.09999 mod


mkXI omega tool tip: 6885.4
mkXI omega per faceing: 8951- 1.10004 mod


borg tool tip: 5775
borg per faceing: 7507- 1.09993 mod


(there is a decimal point not displayed in the UI, effecting the math)

it showing a ~1.1 shield mod across the board tells me that its not the skill tree skill points effecting things on the tier 2&3 fleet ships. now here is were it gets real interesting


fleet ktinga with a listed .94 shield mod

mkXII KHG tool tip: 8004.2
mkXII KHG per faceing: 11780- 1.07472 mod


mkXI omega tool tip: 5920.2
mkXI omega per faceing: 9071- 1.11475 mod, a bit more then fleet vorcha


borg tool tip: 4950
borg per faceing: 7810- 1.14432 mod, a bit more then fleet vorcha


decided to give the omega shield a try, the gap between the capacity on the vorcha is 3106, but on the ktinga its only 2709, a 397 capacity difference. time to run infected elite again

gravametic anchor is awesome by the way, never looked into it much but in addition to making you unable to turn for 10 seconds, it lowers defense score by 50! so yes, when you see me dump plasma wile we fly strait at each other, you will in fact be flying directly into it

for more data, here's my non fleet somraw retrofit, listed 0.65 shield mod

mkXII KHG tool tip: 5582
mkXII KHG per faceing: 8820- .80467 mod


mkXI omega tool tip: 4119
mkXI omega per faceing: 6917- .85007 mod


borg tool tip: 3437
borg per faceing: 6037- .88366 mod


1903 hitpoint difference between KHG and omega here

and here's how the shields are on a a normal qin with an .83 mod across the board to compare to the somraw

mkXII KHG tool tip: 7026
mkXII KHG per faceing: 9134- .83332 mod


mkXI omega tool tip: 5216
mkXI omega per faceing: 5687- .83335 mod


borg tool tip: 4375
borg per faceing: 5687- .83326 mod


(math effected by undisplayed decimal point again)


as you can see, tier 2 and 3 fleet ships definitely favor lower capacity shields, even surpassing their superior tier 5 fleet ship bretheran, if my fleet vorcha is any baseline.

just thought i would post about this, my testing has definitely effected my shield choice, at least on the kdf side. i think this is a good indication that the fleet bops will have a much nicer total shield capacity then it has listed at the very least, and all those somraws, sabers, novas, etc... are more then viable ships for use. i would DEFINITELY chose a fleet saber over a fleet patrol now, provided its maco hitpoints are higher. the 'apparent' shield mod on my mkXI maco fleet heavy cruiser is 1.10595, when .94 is its listed.

this is why this information is important, and why i choose to provide it, with it who would opt for a fleet patrol over a fleet saber?
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 10-08-2012 at 01:21 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 2
10-08-2012, 01:28 AM
Hopefully this is a math bug. If this is intended then it's really ****ty design, and Cryptic should have found a simpler, less bone-headed way to balance the refits of lower tier ships.

(and if this is a math bug and they get rid of it, they do need to find some other way to make the lower tier refits worth using)

In either case, awesome work hunting down this info.

Last edited by hurleybird; 10-08-2012 at 01:52 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,796
# 3
10-08-2012, 01:38 AM
this kind of balancing really should be done with the actual shields themselves, not invisible curves that were never mentioned in the store description. i kinda like it though, inferior ships with sub par shield mods getting additional benefit from low capacity shields, and more high end ships being able to maximize the potential of high capacity shields better

and yes, any fix beter not leave these ships with shield hitpoints in the tank, that would be UNACCEPTABLE. .8 on the somraw is much more reasonable then .65, thats insainly low.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 4
10-08-2012, 01:55 AM
If only they had went with a real hardpoint system instead of this simplistic front/rear stuff they could have had near infinite ship variability without having to resort to either:

a.) everything feeling the same, or
b.) odious power creep, or
c.) weird convoluted differentiators.

Maybe it's not too late to change to something more SFC-like. It's a problem that will only get bigger as time goes on after all. Ideally they would just copy-paste the basically perfect system from Starship Creator.

Last edited by hurleybird; 10-08-2012 at 01:59 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,796
# 5
10-08-2012, 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
If only they had went with a real hardpoint system instead of this simplistic front/rear stuff they could have had near infinite ship variability without having to resort to either:

a.) everything feeling the same, or
b.) odious power creep, or
c.) weird convoluted differentiators.

Maybe it's not too late to change to something more SFC-like. It's a problem that will only get bigger as time goes on after all. Ideally they would just copy-paste the basically perfect system from Starship Creator.
ya actual hardpoints would have been awesome, they worked great in star trek legacy, after a TON of moding. at the very least side weapons, now they are proboly going to release 1 ship with side weapons and its gonna be terrible.

a slider for how strong we want certain shield facings would be nice too, being able to set 115% up front and 95 everywhere else for example. i remember the SFC games having different strengths for different facings.

i loved geeking out in starship creator, i should reload that. they wouldn't even need to do that though, just taking the space part of the skill tree and putting it in the ship costume screen so you can change around your ship's equipment (skills and the skill points in them) as you see fit. it wouldn't be a respec, it would be a refit. and it wouldn't cost zen to do, which is STUPID for how needed it is if you adjust your build.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,213
# 6
10-08-2012, 03:42 AM
Interesting information. Thanks for sharing it.

One thing that I would really love for the good people at Cryptic to add to the game is a "complete statistics" window for the spaceships - it could be placed under the U screen, tab "Skills", when selecting one's ship. That page is currently empty, but it could display all kinds of game-relevant stats there; much more than the status page of the ship shows.
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Last edited by sophlogimo; 10-08-2012 at 04:12 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,703
# 7
10-08-2012, 04:04 AM
wow ... thanks tommy *shakes fist at ceiling* ..... GECKOOOOO!!!!!!
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 34
# 8 waiit a minute..
10-08-2012, 05:01 AM
So does this mean that the flying coffin Tier 3 fleet BoP isn't as squishy as advertised?
Can anyone confirm the shield data for that ship?


Zenith Nader - R.R.W. Nader4President - Tactical Rom KDF
Hei Qin - I.K.S. Apex Revenant -Tactical KDF
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 9
10-08-2012, 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenithnader View Post
So does this mean that the flying coffin Tier 3 fleet BoP isn't as squishy as advertised?
Can anyone confirm the shield data for that ship?
That should be the case. I won't know for certain until my kdf sci hits level cap. (as I'm going to build a Sci X Wing Sci Bop)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 10
10-08-2012, 08:00 AM
Were these measurements done with or without field gens equipped?
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