Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,329
# 31
10-08-2012, 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
[...]
You're championing that a player not have to sacrifice anything (ie Ground) by going 4 Space. They'd take the 4 Space they do now and pick up 4 Ground.

It's munchkin gaming.
[...]
Well, but space and ground are two entirely different games, right - to the point that people usually play only the one or the other, per toon, sometimes (like in my case) even per player. So why lock toons out of the "other" type" when selecting traits (and speccing skills) at all?
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 32
10-09-2012, 12:33 AM
There is no need for 4 and 4....

If you want to select ground traits go for it.

There are only 2 space traits worth taking... take them and 2 ground. It won't hurt your game at all either way....

Frankly I know people with out the 2 space traits that we all love as well... and guess what they are some of the better players in the game.

The traits are mostly a non issue... cause even Accurate and Elusive are only minor boosts.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,666
# 33
10-09-2012, 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Well, adding a few more space traits is certainly required, judging by the importance of space vs. ground combat to most players of STO. But people should not be feeling screwed just because they play a Gorn, for a prominent example. (Even though, as described earlier, I can testify that the traits don't tip the balance that much, it is still an uneasy feeling to look at the trait selection.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Well, but space and ground are two entirely different games, right - to the point that people usually play only the one or the other, per toon, sometimes (like in my case) even per player. So why lock toons out of the "other" type" when selecting traits (and speccing skills) at all?
It's a RPG. Some of it is fluff. It's not all about the min/max. If a person's not doing something that requires min/maxing, it's an entirely different game.

It's likely that only if a person was min/maxing, would they feel screwed. Otherwise, they're likely to be looking at their character having some flavor.

Why does a Gorn have a certain selection available? Because that's part of what makes a Gorn a Gorn...

As for "locking" players out, they're limits. It's no different than deciding if you're going to fly a Cruiser or an Escort. The Cruiser does not have the maneuverability of the Escort and the Escort does not have the hull of the Cruiser. There are limits - choices to be made.

As for them being two different games - well, they're two different activities - but you're character is still the character. Driving and typing are two different activities, but you're still you whether you're driving or typing. Even though somebody may focus more on their driving than typing, they're still them. Even if somebody focuses on space more than ground, it's still the same toon.

The ground traits definitely allow for a little more flavor/fluff, as they go beyond just modifying skills (that do not exist) - while the space traits just allow folks to juggle a few points around (or give a little extra bonus).

If they were to get rid of the space traits, you wouldn't "lose" anything. Yes, you'd lose the bonus to the skills - but that's not the same as losing Seduce, Bite, etc, etc, etc - those ground traits that provide abilities rather than bonuses to skills.

Still though, in the end - it comes down to making a choice. What's more important - A or B? If A's more important, then you may have to accept that you don't get B as well. The game's full of such choices:

Want to fly a B'Rel, well - you don't roll Fed. You want a lot of Sci Boffs, you don't fly an Armitage. There are only so many skill points, so if you want X more than Y - then you wouldn't put the points in Y, you'd put them in X. If you want a more space based character based on traits, you're not going to pick a ground based race...etc, etc, etc.
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# 34
10-09-2012, 01:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
[...]
If they were to get rid of the space traits, you wouldn't "lose" anything. Yes, you'd lose the bonus to the skills - but that's not the same as losing Seduce, Bite, etc, etc, etc - those ground traits that provide abilities rather than bonuses to skills.
Indeed that would also be a way to balance the trait system... just redefine all the existing space traits into ground traits.

Quote:
Still though, in the end - it comes down to making a choice. What's more important - A or B? If A's more important, then you may have to accept that you don't get B as well. The game's full of such choices:
[...]
Yeah, but should it be the choice of making a toon for either space or ground, thus essentially discouraging players with their existing toons to do the part they are not specced for?

Given that the devs spend quite some effort into both types of gameplay, shouldn't the game encourage doing both with the same toon?
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,666
# 35
10-09-2012, 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Yeah, but should it be the choice of making a toon for either space or ground, thus essentially discouraging players with their existing toons to do the part they are not specced for?
The player made the choice to specialize in a certain thing. It's akin to specializing for X ship and not being able to fly Y ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Given that the devs spend quite some effort into both types of gameplay, shouldn't the game encourage doing both with the same toon?
TBH, given the way things are setup - I'm pretty sure the devs want folks running multiple toons where they're more likely to spend money to avoid the various grinds.
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# 36
10-09-2012, 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
The player made the choice to specialize in a certain thing. It's akin to specializing for X ship and not being able to fly Y ship.
Yes, you want the choices to have consequences. I get that. Problem is: Setting the game up this way makes it less profitable for Cryptic to do both space and ground content.

Quote:
TBH, given the way things are setup - I'm pretty sure the devs want folks running multiple toons where they're more likely to spend money to avoid the various grinds.
Possible, but then, you can also use multiple toons to grind Dilithium (and thus Zen) quickly - and I bet most players with multiple toons do that. This will probably even out any revenue-increasing effects, if not more than that.
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 37
10-09-2012, 04:05 AM
You don't play Gorn in space. Where the hell are the man-sized rocks to hurl at your peace-loving opponents?

If you roll a Gorn and you don't take both Bite and Lunge I will personally deface your front lawn.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,329
# 38
10-09-2012, 04:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
You don't play Gorn in space. Where the hell are the man-sized rocks to hurl at your peace-loving opponents?
Then who invented all those nifty consoles?

Quote:
If you roll a Gorn and you don't take both Bite and Lunge I will personally deface your front lawn.
Uh... you can select only one trait for a Gorn. Three are predetermined.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...lM_skuv4#t=584
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 39
10-09-2012, 04:18 AM
I was being facetious dude. My Klink main is actually a Gorn, I called him Jurassic Quark because there's nothing a thinking dinosaur loves more than cringey wordplay.

That's also kind of weird (and stupid), I distinctly remember being able to take two traits on a Gorn at one point in time. No idea why Cryptic would've changed that unless it's to (stupidly) segregate charactersssss.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 40
10-09-2012, 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Given that the devs spend quite some effort into both types of gameplay, shouldn't the game encourage doing both with the same toon?
Not really... you are assuming that its in there best interest to have you only play one toon. That is really not the case.

The devs don't want you to only have one toon they want you to roll many toons.

That should be clear with the move to Per toon unlocks... and Per toon ships.

The devs know full well that STO will NOT be bringing in new players anymore. I mean there will be a trickle of new players until the day the server is brought down. Really they are aware that there is not going to be another massive F2P wave of players coming. STO is at the point in its lifespan where more players leave then are brought in. It is with that in mind that they have started moving to per toon items ect. Rolling an alt is almost as good as bringing in new players. I am sure they have a formula to devise potential revenue. However think of it this way... what makes them more money a New player that comes in for one month and then leaves... possibly dropping a little coin while here... or a 3 current players all rolling and leveling one alt each. I think its clear the alts make them more money.

They are both monetizing and encouraging alts all at the same time right now. You can now move most of your gear around to alt toons. At the same time all the new fleet ships are per toon... as are most of the account and doff unlocks.

Bottom line Soph be a good consumer and go roll an alt.
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