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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
Back in the day, the cruiser with 2xET3 and AtoSIF3 useed to rock the healing...

The shield heals took over...

But now... with shield healing taking a hit, and hull resistance getting a great boost... combined with everyone and his uncle running Tac Team, reducing the value of hull resist debuffs a lot... Is there a chance hull tanking/healing can regain some of it's past glory?

(please refrain from raging about the patch notes in this thread. I'm trying to look forward here )
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,083
# 2
10-10-2012, 02:17 AM
shield resistance slashes incoming damage, you take a fraction of what is shot at you. the hitpoints are also 1/4 of hull, so all your heals fill a much larger % of them. and torps deal 1/4 damage to shields, before any other resistance is applied.

hull? well crank resistance on it past 40%, before using abilities, and your build is pretty compromised, at least your eng consoles are. and torps just love dealing full damage to it

but hey, now you can have 2 copies of AtS and have full resistance up time, AtS1 is like having an extra blue mkXI nutronium wile its on.cryptic is attempting to lessen shield tanking and buff hull tanking by doing this, and the PH, HE at the same time change.

but all they did was make RSP basically unusable, and make you carry 2 extends or else you cant have full EPtS up time. its a disastrous change, and it shows the system team doesn't know the game well enough to attempt any balance passes, they are unqualified.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 889
# 3
10-10-2012, 02:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
shield resistance slashes incoming damage, you take a fraction of what is shot at you. the hitpoints are also 1/4 of hull, so all your heals fill a much larger % of them. and torps deal 1/4 damage to shields, before any other resistance is applied.
Torps do about 1/4 damage to hull tanks as well. Any decent hull tank will run at around the same resistance as shield tanks.

Math wise hull tanking can tank more than shields but in game hull tanking seems to be less effective over shields. For years I hull tanked without shields but not any more Not really sure what changed. I keep running the math and it keeps saying shields should be weaker.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,083
# 4
10-10-2012, 02:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
Torps do about 1/4 damage to hull tanks as well. Any decent hull tank will run at around the same resistance as shield tanks.

Math wise hull tanking can tank more than shields but in game hull tanking seems to be less effective over shields. For years I hull tanked without shields but not any more Not really sure what changed. I keep running the math and it keeps saying shields should be weaker.
i don't have any math to back it up really, but its as plain as day what works. having exposed hull is pretty much a death sentence if anyone is really trying to kill you. maybe you didn't factor in regeneration?
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 889
# 5
10-10-2012, 02:46 AM
I agree its as plain as day what works. The question is more why?

I did factor in regen and hull tanks regen as well even though it drops to 30% ish in combat. If you factor in resistance + regen hull tanks should tank more DPS and back last year hull tanks did tank better, but no more.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 367
# 6
10-10-2012, 02:52 AM
Quote:
maybe you didn't factor in regeneration?
Probably. Regenrative [Reg]x3 running on full shield power with shield buffs and some minimal healing can outregenerate the escort standard damage (counting all 4 facings) and repair damage from alphas pretty fast. With TT running this means that shields will stay on forever unless some escort crit you pretty high or is alpha striking you.

Other shields are not that good at regeneration, but still untill you use those shields from last Guardian of Time mission they will still regenerate far faster then hull.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 7
10-10-2012, 02:53 AM
Torpedos get a penalty against shields that energy weapons don't have.

With a little cross-healing shield resists can easily be boosted to the cap of 75%. Getting hull resists to similar levels is much more difficult. High resists also magnify the value of heals. And hull resists can be debuffed, shield resists cannot.

And most importantly: you need to take into account that ever since TT, attackers have had to go through essentially all four shield facings to hit hull instead of only one.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 889
# 8
10-10-2012, 02:59 AM
I agree shield tanks tend to have more resistance but we are only talking 10% to 15% difference sometimes not even that much. 4 shield facings at 75% resistance is still less hit points then hull + resistance. Then if you compare skills Haz emitters heals with resistance tanks more DPS then TTS with resistance. Same for Aux to Sif/Eng team against EptS. Or at least this was the case when I ran the numbers years back, I even factored in passive hull and shield regen. When I get home from work will re-run the numbers.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 698
# 9
10-10-2012, 03:00 AM
Emergency Power to Shields has been added to the cooldown category shared by Extend Shields and Reverse Shield Polarity.
So the Fleet quin heavy raptor, quin heavy raptor, mvav and all other ships with only 1 engineer now can not shield tank any-more. Nice spend money on a fleet ship and MVAV and again you nerv something i spend money on. When do I learn, don't spend money on this game.
Bone1970 & Bone trader don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac's. BNE Fed Sci.
Bag of Bones & Bone Ugly don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Rom/Fed Tac. Bone & Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng's.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 10
10-10-2012, 03:26 AM
I imagine if the shield healing has been dealt as horrible a blow as some people think, first of all, battles will be over faster.

Not necessarily bad, as long as it's not too much faster.

If shields are, like some people claim, almost useless now, people will have to rely on a both shield and hull heals now, to survive a little bit longer, so the enemy dies before them.

Increased importance of hull healing. I sort of like this.

So the massive hull healer, using doffs to make one ET3 count as two copies, in combo with AtoSIF3, that lands 20k+ hull +resistance every 15 seconds may be useful again?
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