Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 142
# 21
10-10-2012, 07:02 AM
Queue,

You are correct, but you are also playing an advanced level of STO most players either don't understand, or are not in a fleet capable of supporting that high level of consistent gameplay. Most people in STO simply don't understand, or simply don't care, why teamwork is OP, and why fleets matter.

In the right fleet, like mine (Jupiter Force), you would hit that 136,000 daily cap if you put the hours into it. My time only allows me to sustain 80K a day - usually about 10 hours a week of gameplay to sustain indefinitely.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,004
# 22
10-10-2012, 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by echodarksided View Post
Bluegeek,

The Dilithium/Zen exchange rate is little more than a health barometer for the ingame economy. While it is true it is good for Cryptic to have Dilithium exchange value lower, it's not always true.

I believe we see the ingame economy suffer recession type effects when the exchange rate falls below 150, and we see huge economic booms occur when the exchange trades above 170. I'll put together a segment when time allows for this economic discussion for STOked or Jupiter Station in the near future, but for now I would suggest things are healthy and you are in no danger of seeing the purchasing power of Zen diminish anytime soon.
I'm reacting to the statement that 25 Dil per Zen is the ideal. I would assume that few, if any people would buy Dilithium with Zen at that rate of exchange and that the supply of Zen would be quickly exhausted and drive the rate back up.

I'd be willing to bet that the exchange won't support a sustained rate below 100.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 315
# 23
10-10-2012, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
I'm reacting to the statement that 25 Dil per Zen is the ideal. I would assume that few, if any people would buy Dilithium with Zen at that rate of exchange and that the supply of Zen would be quickly exhausted and drive the rate back up.

I'd be willing to bet that the exchange won't support a sustained rate below 100.
That depends on how desperate people are. If they make massive dilithium requirements on some hot new item that everyone wants, people will cave. And once a handful do, others will follow.

Look at the number of people who used to say they will never buy dilithium with C-points but changed their mind after starbases.
Kobayashi Maru
Join Date: Sept 2008


"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,427
# 24
10-10-2012, 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
I'm reacting to the statement that 25 Dil per Zen is the ideal. I would assume that few, if any people would buy Dilithium with Zen at that rate of exchange and that the supply of Zen would be quickly exhausted and drive the rate back up.

I'd be willing to bet that the exchange won't support a sustained rate below 100.
Which is why my statement is a two part issue. It's about price versus volume.

But the best indicator of the game's health would be BOTH 25 dil per ZEN and the volume of transactions shooting up. That would represent a net win.

Hitting 25 dil per ZEN and transactions going down would be good up to a point and that point is allocative efficiency, assuming we aren't already below that.

But an absolute best case would be if Cryptic could create enough demand and enthusiasm on both sides of the exchange that people are freely and rapidly spending 25 dil per ZEN and then spending whatever ZEN or dil they do get rapidly, so as not to hold any balance of either. That's the point of superhuman economic health for the game.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 25
10-10-2012, 08:43 AM
Quote:
Doff Mission Contraband turn it 2000
Doff Mission Colonists 500(crit 1500)
Officer Reports 1400
SFA daily 480

so that is 4380 with no work

then
Mineing 400 (to 800)
1 Elite STF 1100
Btran daily 1440
Exploration Daily 1440
Defence Contract 480

that give you 9240 dil per day with ~1 hour worth of play time

It is nothing for me to pull 16k a day from just keeping my Doff Missions up while chatting in Doffjobs or fleet chat on my main

Now on my KDF and Fed alt, some time they hit there daily cap but most of the time they dont unless i am trying to grind on them for Fleet weapons or what ever

...my point is It is dead simple to max refinement cap, i would love to see it bumped to 16k (maybe the 1100 vet reward?) so i can burn down this backlog on my main, sitting somewhere around 30k ATM
Thats not even close to an hours work the time taken to get enough contraband and colonist alone pushes it well over an hour and only if you have perfect run are you going tobeat all those missions inside 1 hour. Try 3-4, assuming you can actually aquire enough conraband/colonists in the first place.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 939
# 26
10-10-2012, 08:45 AM
Well since the Destroyer was handed out like candy this morning, I like to see something like this actually instituted as a real, legitimate 1000 day vet reward.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,427
# 27
10-10-2012, 08:50 AM
Basically, Cryptic economically healthy if revenue goes up, regardless of what the exchange does.

But the more people are willing to pay ZEN for dilithium and do so IN VOLUME, the more highly they value the rewards that come from in-game activity.

And economically, job one is to try to shape dilithium and C-Store to get the highest VOLUME of trades.

But if they had a high volume of trade AND people were spending more for dilithium, it would mean that gameplay was regarded highly.

Whereas if people were trading 500 dilithium per ZEN and volume of trades was high, it would still be great for Cryptic's short term ledgers but it would mean that gameplay was worth less and people were spending to get the cool shinies and not because they placed a high value on time spent playing.

Which would suggest a need to have more value for time spent playing. Because if people just want to buy their dilithium, it means that the game isn't worth actually playing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 142
# 28
10-10-2012, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
I'd be willing to bet that the exchange won't support a sustained rate below 100.
I agree with your assessment completely. If the exchange falls below 150, that means the in game economy is in a recession and the purchasing power of Zen would be worthless. We would see Cryptic take action to fix that, likely with some daily special that floods the game with Dilithium to balance its value against Zen, plus some appealing lock box which always has the impact of raising the value of Zen for a short time.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,004
# 29
10-10-2012, 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
Thats not even close to an hours work the time taken to get enough contraband and colonist alone pushes it well over an hour and only if you have perfect run are you going tobeat all those missions inside 1 hour. Try 3-4, assuming you can actually aquire enough conraband/colonists in the first place.
I know I can't do all that in one hour, even with 1-Clicks on Officer Reports. Factor in time spent on Fleet Administration and buying Commodities for fleet projects at the cheapest possible rates and then clearing and queueing DOFF assignments on all my alts and it eats up quite a bit of my time. There's a lot of back and forth travel required.

I do have a surplus of Contraband that I'm working on, though.

I think I'm getting off-topic though. Even though I personally would not benefit from a refinement increase at this time, I'm not opposed to it.

We know that dilithium requirements and demand are only going to grow. Which is why tinkering with the refinement caps is less desirable for Cryptic than adjusting the requirements.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 142
# 30
10-10-2012, 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Basically, Cryptic economically healthy if revenue goes up, regardless of what the exchange does.

But the more people are willing to pay ZEN for dilithium and do so IN VOLUME, the more highly they value the rewards that come from in-game activity.

And economically, job one is to try to shape dilithium and C-Store to get the highest VOLUME of trades.

But if they had a high volume of trade AND people were spending more for dilithium, it would mean that gameplay was regarded highly.

Whereas if people were trading 500 dilithium per ZEN and volume of trades was high, it would still be great for Cryptic's short term ledgers but it would mean that gameplay was worth less and people were spending to get the cool shinies and not because they placed a high value on time spent playing.

Which would suggest a need to have more value for time spent playing. Because if people just want to buy their dilithium, it means that the game isn't worth actually playing.
If Zen was to cost 500 dilithium, that would represent a degree of Zen inflation that would be disastrous to the ingame economy. There is a delicate balance as you say, and my impression is Cryptic has done well to maintain that balance with specials and lock boxes to keep any single currency from suffering from inflation, or deflation, depending upon circumstances.
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