Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 51
10-10-2012, 09:11 PM
Ok. You've made your point. Allow me to explain. And please try to see it from somewhere outside your defiant's bridge. In fact the post right before mine puts out reason #1. Do feds have a battle cloak? No. Does the KDF have it? Yes. It's something that makes the two factions unique. It's something that separates them. That in and of itself should be reason enough.

Secondly, the battle cloak changes combat completely for the defiant. Current meta is you alpha strike and hope to destroy them. If you fail, you beat them down, but they know where you are and can counter attack/destroy you. If you give the defiant a battle-cloak, they can re-cloak and then attack again, from a different angle with another 15% attack bonus. Basically you will turn the defiant into a tougher, more heavily armed and nastier version of a BoP. Again, something unique to the KDF.

Lastly, the defiant doesn't need it. How does it affect stats? It doesn't directly affect them. There is no change at all to its actual stats. But it changes how those stats can be used. It changes game-play for the ship. Anyone you ask will tell you that the Fleet Defiant is second only to the bug when it comes to sheer power of that ship class (or if they have only fought those weakling slime npcs, they will say it's the MOST powerful escort). With stats like that, you don't need the battle-cloak, and again, with stats like that, you give them a battle-cloak and it becomes unstoppable.

I know you escort pilots like your ships, and they are already VERY powerful, arguably more so than any other ship class, especially fed escorts (raptors still have that turn issue). Add on a cloak and your escort is crazily powerful. Give it the ability to RE-CLOAK?? I don't mean to rant here, but COME ON. That's nuts.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 114
# 52
10-10-2012, 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit

Hull Points: 33,000
Shield Modifier: 0.9
Fore Weapons: 4 (DHC enabled)
Rear Weapons: 3
Crew: 50
BOff Setup: Ensign Tactical, LtCmdr Tactical, Cmdr Tactical, Lt. Engineering, Lt. Science
Device Slots: 2
Console Setup: 5 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 2 Science
Base Turn Rate: 17
+15 Bonus Power to Weapons

*Additional Notes:
This ship can use the Universal Cloaking Module acquired from the Tactical Escort Retrofit
Hegh'ta Heavy Bird Of Prey (not even fleet version)

Hull Points: irrelevant due to ability to stay out of canon arc with ease and then cloak.
Shield Modifier: irrelevant due to ability to stay out of canon arc with ease and then cloak.
Fore Weapons: 4 (DHC enabled)
Rear Weapons: 2
Crew: 100
BOff Setup: All universal. Infinite variation.
Device Slots: 2
Console Setup: 3 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 3 Science
Base Turn Rate: 21

*Additional Notes:
This ship can use the battle cloak without wasting any module slot.


Amazing how none of the klingons here mention that turn rate, yet keep spamming on about a minor shield and hull difference...

Completely irrelevant when you can stay out of the enemy arc with ease... Hell, that's enough turn rate to out-turn some shuttles (without even any turn rate modules)...


Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Due to the small size of the sprite, this ships actual turn rate is much higher
Err what? How does the graphics effect the turn rate exactly? I can only assume this must be some typo, or you were drunk at the time of writing this.




Defiant getting a battle cloak - I don't think it would be a bad thing - but it's not going to happen. Cryptic lost the balance plot a long time ago.

Give the defiants a battle cloak and remove the decloak damage bonus. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone - The ludicrus alpha strike and balance.
>>> UniqueOne - Providing you with easy PVP kills since Feb 2012 <<<

Last edited by realuniqueone; 10-10-2012 at 09:21 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 53
10-10-2012, 09:25 PM
First off, by sprite size, I mean size of ship in game. That affects it's pivot point which affects turn rate (more specifically cannon arc, since it can keep the cannons on target more easily). So no, not drunk, just following it's weird in game physics.

But if you took away the attack bonus from the decloak on the defiant only, I would find that acceptable.
(and here comes the fed rage).

Oh and one more thing, you can stay out of cannon arcs, but guess what, beam arrays can still frag you.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 114
# 54
10-10-2012, 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
First off, by sprite size, I mean size of ship in game. That affects it's pivot point which affects turn rate (more specifically cannon arc, since it can keep the cannons on target more easily). So no, not drunk, just following it's weird in game physics.
Fair enough. This affects cannon arcs but only for an extra moment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
But if you took away the attack bonus from the decloak on the defiant only, I would find that acceptable.
(and here comes the fed rage).
I would suggest that defiant retro's come with a battle cloak (as above) and the normal defiant comes with the original device (even though I believe the alpha is stupid - how the hell does a cloak increase damage?)

I would also suggest that possibly the Qin (only) could recieve a battle cloak *upgrade module* for complete balance with these changes. This device would probably also need to lower hull strength (and/or shield strength).


Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Oh and one more thing, you can stay out of cannon arcs, but guess what, beam arrays can still frag you.
If you decloak in the defiant's arc, sure - but that's your own fault. Come in from an angle and they should not be able to get their arc on you to take down your shields in time for beams to finish you off.


I really am not trying to take sides here, but I do believe the defiant's current cloak is a joke at that tier - as is the qin raptor's. I believe that balance could be found however that should suit everyone.
>>> UniqueOne - Providing you with easy PVP kills since Feb 2012 <<<

Last edited by realuniqueone; 10-10-2012 at 09:39 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 55
10-10-2012, 09:41 PM
That beam part was actually in reference to cruisers, not to the defiant. And if I ever see a defiant with beam arrays, I can guarantee you I will drag a tac cube over to it to kill it because that's just an insult to that ship.

However with your idea, you don't really want to give a tier 3 ship a cloak, since after all, those are 25th century versions of the defiant class, not the actual defiant. In fact, the "original device" was destroyed at chintoka by a breen chel'gret cruiser. The USS Sau Paulo did not have a cloak.

But I say leave it as is, with the Defiant R having a standard cloak, and if you ever give a battle cloak to ANY defiant class, then remove any buffs it gives.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 19
# 56
10-10-2012, 09:42 PM
I still don't get why Klingon players are always trying to "1 up" fed players.

I get you want to make the two factions unique and different from each other.

If that's the case then take away all the cloaks permanently for Feds!

But wait, the galaxy x is from an alt future where they started equipping fed ships with cloaks! Why? Because they were at war with the Klingons!

Sound familiar?

At the end of the day I doubt anything will actually change which makes this whole thread a waste of time

So stop complaining about how much of a bad idea it is to fit the defiant with a battle cloak!

Will be interesting to see if they give the Romulan faction a perfect cloak or not.

There is talk of making them playable in the future.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 114
# 57
10-10-2012, 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
That beam part was actually in reference to cruisers, not to the defiant. And if I ever see a defiant with beam arrays, I can guarantee you I will drag a tac cube over to it to kill it because that's just an insult to that ship.
Well I sometimes use a few beams with subsystem targeting (and cannons on the downed shield) on a defiant just for fun.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
However with your idea, you don't really want to give a tier 3 ship a cloak, since after all, those are 25th century versions of the defiant class, not the actual defiant. In fact, the "original device" was destroyed at chintoka by a breen chel'gret cruiser. The USS Sau Paulo did not have a cloak.
Yeah they are 25th centry ships, but not flown at that time. It is not unrealistic to believe that module tech has increased since then - even if the ship design itself is still the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
But I say leave it as is, with the Defiant R having a standard cloak, and if you ever give a battle cloak to ANY defiant class, then remove any buffs it gives.
I believe the standard cloak is junk (and the buff also), but a bc with removed buffs would be fair.
>>> UniqueOne - Providing you with easy PVP kills since Feb 2012 <<<
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,097
# 58
10-11-2012, 12:23 AM
a starfleet fanboy drooling for KDF exclusive goodie?
What didn't that surprise me.

You can have some kind of particle burst consule to decloak us for 5 sec though.
How to really behave in online forums with developers

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,045
# 59
10-11-2012, 01:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amlross View Post
I still don't get why Klingon players are always trying to "1 up" fed players.
You mean when the Feds want to give the Defiant a battlecloak but at the same time say no to a battlecloak on its actual counterpart the Raptor the Klingon players are trying to 1 up the Feds?
How does that worK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amlross View Post
I get you want to make the two factions unique and different from each other.

If that's the case then take away all the cloaks permanently for Feds!

But wait, the galaxy x is from an alt future where they started equipping fed ships with cloaks! Why? Because they were at war with the Klingons!

Sound familiar?
An alternate future where the Klingons completely conquered the Romulans.
Does not sound familiar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amlross View Post
At the end of the day I doubt anything will actually change which makes this whole thread a waste of time

So stop complaining about how much of a bad idea it is to fit the defiant with a battle cloak!

Will be interesting to see if they give the Romulan faction a perfect cloak or not.

There is talk of making them playable in the future.
We know.
But it's doubtful they'll get a "perfect cloak" (what does that mean anyway?).
And if you followed several of the couple dozen thread that have come up on this mattr over the last 2 1/2 years you'll know that most of the KDF players want them to have battlecloaks on all their ships.
Because the Romulans are the masters of cloak.
So it's not about keeping the battlecloak a KDF exclusive, it's about giving it to a faction where it makes actual sense.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 374
# 60
10-11-2012, 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
You mean when the Feds want to give the Defiant a battlecloak but at the same time say no to a battlecloak on its actual counterpart the Raptor the Klingon players are trying to 1 up the Feds?
How does that worK?
i am a fed and i dont say that.
What ? Calaway.
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