Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 292
# 11
10-11-2012, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
Producing a fairly generic, combat-heavy mission that plays out in half an hour takes a week of work. Producing an intricate, puzzle and story-heavy mission that plays out in an hour takes a month of work. In both these cases, players use up that content in a day, and never see it again.

Producing a new ship takes a month, but they use it every time they play.

Plus, many players rebel at the idea of paying for missions, but are totally fine with paying for items.
How about producing an intricate, puzzle,combat- and story-heavy mission with random events and multiple endings, that offer different rewards on how you finish the mission.....takes what,2 months of work,will be content that players will keep using because it's not the same mission over and over again.

The simple fact is Cryptic/PWE are just not willing to make that kind of content,it's all about short term investments that need to turn a profit within 60 hours after release,instead of making longer lasting quality content.

Some advice to PWE.....if you are intent on behaving like a greedy little Ferengi,be prepared to be treated like one......Klingon style!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 87
# 12
10-11-2012, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
RADICAL thought but what if they started tying content in relation to C-Store goals?

I know they'd never want to release HARD numbers.

But Kickstarter it up.

Have a meter that says, "We are at 25% of our goal to create Free Content Expansion X. As soon as we hit our goal, we begin production. It will take 4-6 months. Anyone who bought on the C-Store during this push gets 1 bonus Lobi for every $1 they spent after we hit our goal. If we hit 200% of our goal in two months, you get 5 Bonus Lobi and we'll begin work on a second content expansion with a second team. If we hit 300%, Patrick Stewart will reprise his role as Jean-Luc Picard."

Nobody knows the hard numbers. It's likely that different items would contribute differently based on the cost of making them.
Like the idea. Makes content development more visible to the playerbase as they know each dollar they spend is actually going to get them content.

I cast my vote for this C-Store Starbase Project.
Just can't let go of the Excelsior...
Join Date: Aug 2008
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 807
# 13
10-11-2012, 12:33 PM
I wonder if a kickstarter-model would work for an MMO.

Be an interesting experiment if I had time and money to invest in starting an MMO from scratch...

Interesting idea!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 14
10-11-2012, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjcfoxtrot View Post
Very important point here that should not be missed.
Not to mention that the hundreds of thousands and much more the lock boxes make. The sales of one 6 week lock box cash grab should provide Crytpic's tiny little closet sized few person company (as they'd like us to believe) operating and development costs for months. Instead, the money doesn't go into STO at all and does end up paying for Neverwinter and PWE projects. We get the odd new "content" grind and more loack boxes. What is made off of one round of lock boxes has yet to be returned to the players in any form of content.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 759
# 15
10-11-2012, 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by themarie View Post
OP has a good grasp of the situation, except for one important detail. The internal operations of Cryptic are using STO to finance other more "shiny" products.
I think what you fail to grasp is that Cryptic does not make any money on its own. If you buy zen the money goes to Perfect World, because you are buying it from them. If you buy a subscription the money goes to Perfect World. If you buy an LTS the money goes to Perfect World. The only income Cryptic makes is what Perfect World decides to give them each month/quarter/year.

STO is not financing other games. Perfect World is financing STO, and CO, and NWNs. Perfect World decides how much money Crytpic gets to pay its bills, and gets to decide what budget each division within Cryptic gets to work with from the money they give Cryptic. Perfect World is not giving Cryptic money from its STO income. It is giving them money from their corporate accounts which has income from 13 different games. Forsaken World and Jade Dynasty are financing NWN in the same way that STO is: profits from all games go toward making more profits.

STO is not carrying CO or NWN. STO is given a budget and expected to make profits. CO is given a budget and expected to make profits. When NWN goes live it will be given a budget and be expected to make profits. Perfect World pays all the bills and gets all the profits. Each division in Cryptic is required to make profit to benefit Perfect World, not Cryptic.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 688
# 16
10-11-2012, 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Stating the obvious.

But the point is that players see the missions as part of the ship purchase in large measure.

They see it as a Kickstarter.

"I pay you indirectly to make missions, wink, wink, and you give me these ships as a free thank you so I can show what a good patron I am."

It's not that they'd pay for content directly. You're right. Most wouldn't if the content was the sole prize. But they see themselves as PATRONS rather than mere CUSTOMERS.
I think they see themselves as mathematicians. If $90 bought me a nice box with a combadge, a DVD and a month of access to a game with upwards of a hundred missions and dozens of ships, and $25 buys me 2500 which buys me one ship... Uhm... If there were just 20 ships in game at launch (there were more, but let's assume) and we discount all the extras of the collector's edition I bought, and even the missions. Uhm... 90... divide by 20... So that's what a ship costs. Then's what's the other $20.50 for?

I think there's a choice, between believing you're being fleeced, and believing there's at least something worthwhile happening with the difference. And be fair: Cryptic has guided us toward the latter. Especially since F2P, the line was the Z-store now had to pay for everything the subscription fees were once upon a time supposed to cover.

I don't disagree with you, you make a good point, there's disconnect there. I just don't think it's the only disconnect. And I do think it's going to keep getting worse. Patterns of behavior are not matching what's being implied, seen to be said or actually being said. And if suspension of disbelief were a permanent thing, we'd call it something else.
Reave
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,827
# 17
10-11-2012, 12:58 PM
OP makes some good points.

As for the people screaming 'content', I generally ignore those people from the get-go, because 'content' can mean so many different things. What I consider content and what you consider content could be two different definitions.

If we're talking mission content -- as in... new missions? We're seeing that. The starbase fleet actions. Colony invasion, No Win Scenario, Starbase Incursion, Starbase Defense, Starbase Blockade... am I forgetting any?

What we're likely to see more of is repeatable content. Like the starbase stuff. Into the Hive? It's going to be repeatable. Romulan Colony? It's going to have repeatable content.

Anyone remember Everquest? The first one. SOE was churning out 2 expansions a year at its heyday, to feed the mission-hungry players more mission content. But if we all remember what that did, we'll remember that it didn't work out all that well. The expansions were buggy. And most vulgarly of all... some expansions were hitting the store shelves before the expansion itself was complete -- and Game Masters and devs would go in-game and purposely break the story quest chain so players would be unable to progress until their developers were done working on it, despite having shelled out the money for the expansion already.

What did they learn? The same thing every other MMO in existance knows by now. This is truth, this is not speculation. This is not hyperbole, this is not opinion. This is established fact.

Players will burn through content faster than it can be created.

What takes me 15 to 20 minutes to burn through, has taken weeks and months to produce. No MMO is safe from this. STO tried to address with the Genesis system. The 'randomization' of star cluster missions is not all that random. We know exactly the kind of mission we get when we enter a star cluster mission.

When Cryptic creates mission content, they make it to be repeatable. And that's what we've seen. This is what we've been given. All we can do is hope Cryptic continues to expand on the 'repeatability' of the content, similar to starbase upgrades. If Cryptic can make the Romulan Colony's lifespan last several months... that gives them time to work on more content.

And ultimately I think that's where the mark needs to be set. Give players a grindfest to last several months in order to develop more content that will be a grindfest to last several more months.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=91851766000&type=sigpic&dateline=13403  39147
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,425
# 18
10-11-2012, 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcsww View Post
Not to mention that the hundreds of thousands and much more the lock boxes make. The sales of one 6 week lock box cash grab should provide Crytpic's tiny little closet sized few person company (as they'd like us to believe) operating and development costs for months. Instead, the money doesn't go into STO at all and does end up paying for Neverwinter and PWE projects. We get the odd new "content" grind and more loack boxes. What is made off of one round of lock boxes has yet to be returned to the players in any form of content.
Well, my guesstimate is that since they started doing lockboxes, they increased payroll by about $3 million, hiring up 25 extra people. But we have no clue what those people do.

Based on PWE's revenue projections for STO Season 6 (which they released), my inkling is to say that -- at this point -- all of STO's sales revenue is being reinvested into more and more labor.

We just don't know what kind of labor or what the operating philosophy at Cryptic is.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,425
# 19
10-11-2012, 01:07 PM
And that's a good point about content volume.

One thing in STO's favor is that unlike WoW, pretty much all of STO is replayable. You play a WoW quest once and you aren't allowed to play it again. The STO problem is why you'd want to.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,997
# 20
10-11-2012, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
And that's a good point about content volume.

One thing in STO's favor is that unlike WoW, pretty much all of STO is replayable. You play a WoW quest once and you aren't allowed to play it again. The STO problem is why you'd want to.
I think it has to do with a sense of completion. "It's over, done with... aaaah.... let's move on." And that's one of STO's weaknesses, there's no real feeling of accomplishment.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
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