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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,285
Always a hot topic of discussion is what to do with STFs when someone goes AFK, or when a team has newbies who won't listen to instruction, or who don't speak the language, and just can't complete the tasks at hand...

Leaver Penalties are often unfair, as a group can repeatedly try to accomplish a goal, and because of inexperienced, not listening, griefing, or AFK players: they just can't move on- Who takes the leaver penalty? When it gets bad enough, it's often merciful for someone to 'take one for the team' and leave.

Some people propose a "vote kick" function. But this would certainly lead to abuse. Inexperienced players who are legitimately trying to learn could be abused by impatient veterans, and that would discourage them from continuing to learn the STFs.

So what to do? We've got players who are beyond redemption who screw things up for everyone else, and we've got players who are trying to learn but just might make mistakes. How do we balance a merciful solution that doesn't punish anyone for leaving if they're left with no other choice, and doesn't discouage new players from learning?

My proposed solution is a "Vote End" function. Rather than voting to kick any one player, this would be a function to simply end the STF with no leaver fees. If three players on a team agree that the team is incapable of moving on, they can activate a vote function to simply end the STF with no penalty to anyone on the team. This allows everyone to reset and doesn't allow for any functional abuse. A "Vote End" function is the best answer!
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3
# 2
10-11-2012, 06:57 PM
Actually this could work.

It's certainly better than the vote kick idea and I cannot see much room for abuse (beyond that of 3 players already determined to stir things up).
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 3
10-11-2012, 07:15 PM
what about loot picked up during that time, like an extra edc or something?

but apart from that, i like the idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 170
# 4
10-15-2012, 07:09 AM
I like that idea alot!

A very fair and elegant way for people to deal with a STF that for whatever reason is going nowhere.

And to reply to the person asking what about the loot, i do not see the issue since whatever loot the players might have got before terminating the STF, they worked for it. STFs give no free loot as far as i know and it always is random.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 790
# 5
10-17-2012, 12:50 PM
need leave penalty but no on kick team in STF
report someone if you see them doing something wrong
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,670
# 6
10-17-2012, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean2448 View Post
need leave penalty but no on kick team in STF
report someone if you see them doing something wrong
Yea... nothing is gonna happen about that... It's not against the games rules to sit still and do nothing during STF's, and to be blunt: The don't care.
My name may say "PWE member", but I will never be.
-NEVER Forget the Screwups and ignorance made towards the people who supported the game through 2011
Don't look silly, don't call it "Zen-Store" - Don't waste devs time, Post proper bug-reports - I don't like Gekos
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 84
# 7
10-17-2012, 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean2448 View Post
need leave penalty but no on kick team in STF
report someone if you see them doing something wrong
Im sorry but are you suggesting that they still have the leaver penalty but not have a vote kick.


And you're advocating to Report Abuse if you see someone doing something wrong?



Not sure if serious or troll.

Ontopic: The Vote End STF sounds like a good idea.

Cant tell you how many times I roll into an Space STF and oh look 3 out of 5 people are rainbow boating. Delightful.

Aw... thats cute. The escort has BEAM ARRAYS. WHY.

Or ground STF where one guy decided that Leroy Jenkins is a person to emulate and aggros everything in the freaking place.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 970
# 8
10-18-2012, 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azniadeet View Post
So what to do? We've got players who are beyond redemption who screw things up for everyone else, and we've got players who are trying to learn but just might make mistakes. How do we balance a merciful solution that doesn't punish anyone for leaving if they're left with no other choice, and doesn't discourage new players from learning?
I don't know. What is 'beyond redemption'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azniadeet View Post
My proposed solution is a "Vote End" function. Rather than voting to kick any one player, this would be a function to simply end the STF with no leaver fees. If three players on a team agree that the team is incapable of moving on, they can activate a vote function to simply end the STF with no penalty to anyone on the team. This allows everyone to reset and doesn't allow for any functional abuse. A "Vote End" function is the best answer!
How about creating an algorithm that automatically replaces 'afk' players? If the player does not show a significant amount of involvement, the STF will automatically replace them with another person. Solution solved.

When it comes to the optional objectives, why not extend their time period in the normal stfs? It will allow veteran players to teach new players without the pressure of a timer.

Cryptic has already started on a solution. Once the reputation system comes out, every player will be able to get the recruit, veteran, and elite items. You will not have to worry about timers, random drops, and pugs.

Why should three people be allowed to end a stf; thus, allowing three players to punish a fourth player for a fifth player's actions? If three players leave a stf, due to the actions of one player, all four players should be hit with a leaver penalty. Why? It simple. All four players caused problems for an innocent bystander.

Anything that puts players in control of other players will lead to abuse.

I would just setup behind the scenes algorithms to deal with the issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azniadeet View Post
Always a hot topic of discussion is what to do with STFs when someone goes AFK, or when a team has newbies who won't listen to instruction, or who don't speak the language, and just can't complete the tasks at hand...
What makes you think what you have to say is important? What makes you so special? If you can answer those two questions objectively, without an ounce of subjectivity, I will then take what you have to say into consideration. When things go horribly wrong in stfs, the vocal players spam the chatbox with hate and discrimination. As someone who is an innocent bystander, I close the chatbox when the first player yelps out. I don't want to read your complaints about other players. I also don't want you to tell me what to do. I want to play the stfs according to my own style.

I am suggesting algorithms to control the issue, and you are suggesting they should give you power.

Last edited by linyive; 10-18-2012 at 09:17 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,285
# 9
10-18-2012, 09:16 AM
IGE- you get to the boss room, someone stands in the middle aggroing the borg, spawning turrets, spawning pets, and not jumping out to trigger the consoles. You say "Someone come trigger this console"- kind of important. They don't listen.

If you're not going to do what's necessary to complete the tasks, and you're not going to listen to the instruction on how to: you're a griefer. Being self centered, and refusing to be a team player is not fair to those who work together. At a minimum, they should have the power to distance themselves from 'your style', penalty free.

Sounds like you need to check your attitude if you don't understand this, because what you're describing is beyond redemption.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 970
# 10
10-18-2012, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azniadeet View Post
If you're not going to do what's necessary to complete the tasks, and you're not going to listen to the instruction on how to: you're a griefer. Being self centered, and refusing to be a team player is not fair to those who work together. At a minimum, they should have the power to distance themselves from 'your style', penalty free.
Yes, the stfs are setup with certain tasks; however, you cannot change or force people to learn them. Many people learn them through observation; thus, whatever is said in chatbox will usually get ignored.

(1) You cannot force people to change.
(2) You should not punish people for their learning curve.
(3) You should not punish people for how they learn.
(4) You should not punish people for the time it takes them to learn.

Not everything is in black and white. Independent players like to learn on their own, so they will go through a 'trial and error' process. When I was learning how to build computers, I ripped apart my entire system. I observed how things were setup, pulled things apart, and then put everything back together. My errors allowed me to dig deeper into the mechanics; thus, I was able to formulate the appropriate questions. Even though I eventually learned certain complexities in college, my initial learning experience came from 'trial and error'.

I am a mechanically inclined individual who doesn't wait for someone to say go. I don't need someone to tell me what to do. I jump into the pool to see if I can swim. Even though I will be faced with failures, I will use them to drive me towards success. Once I have certain questions in place, I will then seek out their complexities.

I don't care if you fail during my process.

If you cannot see this game as a form of entertainment, you are taking this experience to an extremely serious level. Nothing we do in this environment affects real life. When a new player blotches an stf, you should be laughing and enjoying the experience. New players will eventually learn. Once you start to lighten up the atmosphere, new players will feel more relaxed to ask questions.

Your gaming experience will remain tense, for as long as you keep taking a serious approach.

Relax, laugh, exercise patience, and enjoy the fun.

Last edited by linyive; 10-18-2012 at 10:02 AM.
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