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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,118
# 21
10-12-2012, 11:57 AM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by alexindcobra Both ships only got max turn rates at max speed. You can got test it yourself instead of sitting here arguing with me.
I understand that. However, what you are failing to understand is that turn rate is dictated by several factors (engines, ship's inherit turn rate, inertia, impulse speed, consoles, etc). Cruisers have a lower inertia (lower impulse speed) and a lower turn rate. Since the modifiers provided by equipment (and probably inertia and impulse speed) are from percentages, a lower numerical value with have a lower gain from the modifiers with percentages.

It is not a straight 2x turn rate. Your Chimera has a higher turn rate value and higher inertia (probably), the latter case means that your Chimera's impulse speed is higher.

It's very easy to test this.

Go to the Sol System (not sector space). Set your power settings to something like Offensive or Defensive mode. Go at your fastest speed without going into max impulse and check your character sheet (movement tab). It should tell what your max impulse speed and turn rate is (without diverting all power to your engines).

Switch to Speed mode, which will set your engine power to 100. You'll now see your turn rate and impulse speed increase.

For instance, my Tactical Escort Retrofit, at 52/30 engine power, has an impulse speed of 28.10 and a turn rate of 42.6. If I switch to an engine power of 100, my impulse speed goes 32 and turn rate of greater than 45 (can't remember off the top of my head).

Inertia affect your turn rate and your speed, and they are additional modifiers. Period. Lower inertia has a lower speed and turn rate. Higher inertia has a higher speed and turn rate. Unfortunately, I have yet to find any information on what the percentage is exactly.

But my example of 50% is assuming you have consoles to help you increase your turn rate. In that case, the math is correct. 6 + 50% = 9. 14 + 50% = 21. But, because of your ships inertia and impulse speed, the actual turn rate will be different.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 22
10-12-2012, 12:03 PM
How are you getting x2 modifiers?
The charts and graphs that have been made of the skills effects bring a 9 point spending in Thrusters as only providing a 19% increas to turn and 26% increase to speed.

Where is the missing 31% coming from?
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 23
10-12-2012, 12:04 PM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by hereticknight085 Wow dude. Just wow. I am an Engineering Captain who flies a fkin Odyssey. That thing is a space whale. I AM A CRUISER PILOT (or did you miss the cruiser thread I started a few weeks ago? Or the fact I have posted in support of cruisers on almost every thread that included them?). I don't fly escorts unless I absolutely have to. And look at it this way. LIFETIME SUBSCRIBERS will always get the best stuff. They had to pay quite a bit to get said heavy destroyers. And those are heavy destroyers. Their name alone implies combat based. And you need to move around to do combat. And the Dreadnaught can CLOAK. It's designed for ambush nuking, not dogfighting. And I have put up numbers. Look at my thread and all the other threads I posted in involving cruisers. I have put up calculations, numbers, suggestions. So please, before making a fool of yourself, please at least have proper false information to back it up so you don't seem like an overblown windbag that sees only his own ideas. This is not Burger King, you cannot have it your way.
"The Chimera probably also gets a better passive boost because you need to pay \$300 (or 200 if you got the discount) for it. OF COURSE IT'S GOING TO BE BETTER THAN YOUR DREADNAUGHT. Why don't you stop trying to play a cruiser like an escort, and either A) Play your cruiser like a cruiser, or B) Get a bloody escort and stop complaining."

Well from those words it appeared otherwise. You said "bloody", I said "stinking,"
one is not more rude than the other. Bloody doesn't make it sound less rude just because it came out of your mouth.

Its like you are bent on starting a fight, period. You thought i was going to crawl uder a rock with my tail between my legs because you spoke rude first? Since I am so much of a "windbag" on my own thread, even when I did the test and put up numbers and you didn't put up crap, I will ignore anything you have to say, because you are irrellvant.

Note the Odyssey is one cruiser that got revamped because of the mass outrage over the ship's low power rating and squishingness and turn rate. Now they have 3 C-store versions that can be combined into one with added power for engines, shields, weapons, and healing over all the other cruisers. I flew all the cruisers and looked at the varius differences. The Galaxy Brands are the most crippled out of all the cruisers. Flying the STO's favored cruiser by Devs don't really speak to the shortfalls of the cruiser group as a whole.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 24
10-12-2012, 12:07 PM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by bitemepwe How are you getting x2 modifiers? The charts and graphs that have been made of the skills effects bring a 9 point spending in Thrusters as only providing a 19% increas to turn and 26% increase to speed. Where is the missing 31% coming from?
Dude, I don't know why i'm getting x2 on my Chimira. I don't even have a special engine on it. I did say the stats are not really matching up when comparing to my Dreadnought's bonus.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,912
# 25
10-12-2012, 12:15 PM
Ok, I don't care who started this, IT ENDS HERE!

This is (meant to be) about how CRUISERS move not anything else... P2W in irrelevant... that and unbalanced... sure up the turn-rates of cruisers below base 8 (anything 8 or higher really doesn't need it), we have to pay for a tankability one way or another (I know we paid 2 ways and I think that should change) and I for 1 am happy to pay with speed and turn rate.

But in a DISCUSSION thread we don't need a bashing session (deciding who's best is the job of direct 1 on 1 pvp, as opposed to the wider pvp picture)
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 26
10-12-2012, 12:19 PM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by alexindcobra Its like you are bent on starting a fight, period. You thought i was going to crawl uder a rock with my tail between my legs because you spoke rude first? Since I am so much of a "windbag" on my own thread, even when I did the test and put up numbers and you didn't put up crap, I will ignore anything you have to say, because you are irrellvant. Note the Odyssey is one cruiser that got revamped because of the mass outrage over the ship's low power rating and squishingness and turn rate. Now they have 3 C-store versions that can be combined into one with added power for engines, shields, weapons, and healing over all the other cruisers. I flew all the cruisers and looked at the varius differences. The Galaxy Brands are the most crippled out of all the cruisers. Flying the STO's favored cruiser by Devs don't really speak to the shortfalls of the cruiser group as a whole.
Not really bent on starting a fight. More like confused as to why you refuse to see reason. It's like you say anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't know what they are talking about. I am trying to see your point of view, really I am. But when you don't seem to be even open to the possibility of something you said being wrong, I find it hard to put any validity to any arguments you make. If you only see one side, you'll never be able to look at the whole.

As for the Odyssey? I only recently got that. Up until then I was flying an Assault Cruiser. The free one. And a shovel out of boredom. Again, one that has identical stats to the Sovereign. So I think I can speak pretty well on how cruisers perform as a whole.

You need to understand, money talks. You pay a ton of money to get access to the Chimera, and quite a nice chunk of change to get access to the best ships in the game. Look at the Odyssey, arguably the best federation cruiser. It costs \$50 to get all 3 so you can design the ship of your choice. And after your apparent bias against the Oddy, I'll instead take the Regent. That's a ship designed for combat, and does it well from what I've seen. It costs \$25. Now look at the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit, arguably the best federation escort. To get everything that particular ship has to offer, you have to pay \$35 (\$10 for the refit, \$20 for the retrofit, \$5 for a fleet module, or 5 mil ec on the exchange). And lastly the Science vessels. All the fleet ones cost up to \$20, plus however much you may have paid for a c-store ship. Even the Atrox, arguably one of the best science tanks, costs \$25.

Taking all that into account, you now have the Chimera, a \$300 dollar ship. It kind of makes sense that a ship that costs that much, with only 9 consoles, would make up for it with huge performance potential/capability.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 802
# 27
10-12-2012, 12:20 PM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by shookyang Inertia affect your turn rate and your speed, and they are additional modifiers. Period. Lower inertia has a lower speed and turn rate. Higher inertia has a higher speed and turn rate. Unfortunately, I have yet to find any information on what the percentage is exactly.
That is simply wrong. Inertia effects how much your ship lags behind changes in movement. The higher the ships inertia score the faster it reacts to changes in speed.
Impulse speed has nothing to do with it. Thats what the impulse modifier is for.

-= ISE: 12:19 -=- CSE 12:41 -=- KASE 11:59 -=- HSe 8:06 total =-
-= KAGE 5:43 =-
[7:07] [Combat (Self)] Your Dual Disruptor Banks - Overload II deals 123086 (41096) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,714
# 28
10-12-2012, 12:22 PM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by shookyang Because the increase is in %. A 50% increase on a turn rate of 6 is going to give you a total of 9. But, a 50% increase on a turn rate of 16 is going to give you a total of 24.
Zactly. It's a classic rookie mistake to think a RCS console or two will really help you on a natively slow-turning boat; it's working off of percentage of base turn-rate: if that is crap, you're never going to get a fast-turning ship (except maybe when using Attack Pattern Omega or something, but I digress).
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,118
# 29
10-12-2012, 01:44 PM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by lostusthorn That is simply wrong. Inertia effects how much your ship lags behind changes in movement. The higher the ships inertia score the faster it reacts to changes in speed. Impulse speed has nothing to do with it. Thats what the impulse modifier is for.
Ahh, that's right.

I forgot that ships have their own Impulse modifier as well.

In any case, impulse speed still plays a role in turning rate. Since ships have different impulse modifiers, the turning rate will be different depending on the ship.

Comparing "max impulse to max turning rate" isn't going to give you the same ratio. Saying you're getting 2x the turning rate out of the Chimera versus a Galaxy has more to do with ALL of the modifiers in play. Not just what is stated on the ship's description and your engines.

Essentially, you're looking at an equation that includes the ship's stated turn rate, turn rate of the engines, inertia, impulse modifier, and consoles.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 30
10-12-2012, 01:47 PM
Essentially OP is trying to blow a lot of hot air and complain about something that has been around since launch.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.

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