Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 877
# 11
09-06-2012, 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
since we now have team batteries, so the whole team can have 4x125 energy anyways even eps is useless.
Team batteries should just be disabled in PvP, period. Ditto for jevonite.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,064
# 12
09-06-2012, 04:05 PM
-The "Dr. Rick Marshall" engineer escort build for PVP-

by Captain Horizon


first, i would like to say that there really is no place for an engie escort in this game. engies have absolutely no tac buffs or target debuffs that allow it to do meaningful spike damage. this being the escort's primary role in battle...... therefore you just about nullify any potential you may get out of an escort, by piloting it with an engineer captain. i just really like flying escorts, so i always search for some way to use my engie (Dr. Rick Marshall) in an escort that is somewhat team oriented, and is 100% piloted as a tac escort's wingman. (and its still not as effective as sci-scort in that role i don't think... but maybe...)

ship: Armitage (Akira skin if your cool)

spec into torp weapons and defense/agility/powerxfer

loadout:

1 phaser array ACCx3, 3 Quantum torps ACCx3 fore
1 phaser array ACCx3, 2 Quantum torps ACCx3 rear

borg engine, borg deflector, maco shields

1 nutronium, borg console, (3rd is a toss up..eps if you switch powers a lot, neutronium for defense ect ect....)
2 shield cap++
4 quantum torp ++

nothing in the hangar, because escorts don't use pets.

TT1
TT1, TSP2
TSP1, APD1, APO1, APO3
EPTS1, EPTS2, ES2
HE1, TSS2

doffs: 2 purple projectile, 3 BFI shield distro hax

piloting:

run high shields and aux rotate tac teams and omegas on yourself, along with 2 copies of EPTS keeps you pretty solid. and if not, you have RSF and EF and MW to save you, along with your BFI doff hax.

that leaves ES, HE1, TSS2, APD for your buddy. but that is also the big minus to this thought pattern...1 hull heal. you'd like to have an aux2sif in there, but you'd have to give up EPTS2 for that.... which is an easy enough switch...especially if you are good at switching power level focuses.

you keep him alive, and rain omega buffed quantum spreads at everything he points at. along with a sci/sci that is heal heavy and timely with the nuke.....things can happen....

anywho.....its still not an engineer cruiser. i'd say thats the engineer's home. but i totally get trying to max damage as an engineer. ships are so tanky anyways....might as well do something different.

edit: i also carry boffs that have target engines 1,2 in there....hence the beam arrays....also, i like just nabbing a random phaser proc.....you could easily do without...or use turrets to keep a ping...

have fun kill bad guys

Last edited by thishorizon; 09-06-2012 at 04:09 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
# 13
09-06-2012, 06:20 PM
Nice to get a few comments, I really appreciate the feedback. In truth it summerises what I've been contemplating for a while and that is the problem facing engineers as they transisition from PVE to PVP. In PVE the Eng-Scort works, it actually works quite well, but there's no way to effectively take that principle and apply it in the PVP world, at least at no expense.

No feelings hurt, if anything this thread helps warn people of the pit falls behind certain builds and perhaps helps to bring a little bit of focus on the plight of eng captains.

I'll probably fall back to a dedicated support cruiser again. More likely though I'll just start playing my tac and sci alts a lot more and try to forget about that lass in the gold uniform.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 14
09-06-2012, 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heronfarm View Post
Nice to get a few comments, I really appreciate the feedback. In truth it summerises what I've been contemplating for a while and that is the problem facing engineers as they transisition from PVE to PVP. In PVE the Eng-Scort works, it actually works quite well, but there's no way to effectively take that principle and apply it in the PVP world, at least at no expense.

No feelings hurt, if anything this thread helps warn people of the pit falls behind certain builds and perhaps helps to bring a little bit of focus on the plight of eng captains.

I'll probably fall back to a dedicated support cruiser again. More likely though I'll just start playing my tac and sci alts a lot more and try to forget about that lass in the gold uniform.
Take the best of both worlds: when doing arenas, or playing in a premade, jump in your ody (or whatever cruiser you have and like). When doing c&h, Kerrat, random puging, use escort. All those advices are great, interesting build Cpt h btw, but most important is for you to like it, it's a damn game after all. Also if you haven't done it already, roll a tac on kdf and put him in a cruiser, it's a frigging awesome experience, lol. I specifically recommend fleet vorcha and bortasqu. More tac consoles, more damage than fed cruisers... And pretty much that's about it since escorts and sci for kdf suck, but well, that's another topic, lol.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 35
# 15
10-13-2012, 07:27 PM
Try this, see if it helps:

Try using Aegis Deflector/Shields. The Jem'Hadar Engines or the Borg ones if you're a "Set" kind of person.

Engineering slots you can try Neuotronium X2 and a Monotonium or vice versa depending on what the ratio-ness of shield to hull squishyness you retain.

Ditch the Theta... Ability consoles are, by and far, considered as an inexperienced person's console choice. (in PvP)

In your Science slots I'd recommend a Shield point buff one (Field generator?) and your Assimilated Module.

Not sure how the Tactical, energy-type consoles stack regarding diminishing returns past 4. If it's a rubbish % you could always try the weapon-type console for the 5th and see if it nets you a better return.

As for your weapons. Although Dual Heavy Cannons are the most energy efficient weapons in the game, their recharge cycle shares itself with that of your rear turrets as well. I'd recommend ditching a fore DHC in place of a Photon/Quantum launcher to diminish your cyclic weapon drain. Also, it gives you a viable option to fill that stupid, lone, ensign tactical slot with THY1.

Hope it helps or at least gets you thinking.
-Jeremy
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 337
# 16
10-14-2012, 12:18 PM
That's also the inherent problem with Engineers. A Sci or a Tac can be effective in just about any ship type, because of their inherent Dmg Buffs/Enemy Debuffs.

Engineers get only a subpar self-heal from Miracle Worker and Nadeon Inversion, which is easily nullified by Siphon Drones, Plasmonic Leech and other energy draining abilities. RSF can be interrupted or stripped by broken SNB Doffs.

PvP in it's current state, honestly, if you want to pilot an escort as and Engineer, I'd suggest going with a Torp/Mine build and just hitting them with guerilla tactics. Otherwise, you're only real option is a Carrier or Oddy and just be a damage soaker while trying to heal your allies.

Last edited by doomicile; 10-14-2012 at 12:39 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 17
10-14-2012, 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heronfarm View Post
In the recently trending thread Tactical Captain Buffs and Sci Powers there's been a few interesting comments regarding the humble PVP Engineer. The basic comments boil down to the underwhelming performance of Engineer Captains when stood next to their Science and Tactical kin.

As a player who plays an Engineer Captain as his main this has disturbed me, and I was wondering are Engineer Escort builds viable in a PVP setting or is their only real place behind a cruiser/science vessel throwing out heals, phaser procs and/or spam?

Speaking from an optimised perspective we all know the answer is, generally, the later. But if we had to, were forced to, how would we make an Engineer Escort work?

Here's my attempt, your feedback, alternative builds and advice would certainly be appreciated.

I'm using the Fleet Tactica Escort Retro, it comes with a 5th tactical console with which I'm trying to eek out as much damage potential as possible. Also with the shield remodulation and emergency heal that come as the Engineers unique abilities we should be able to cope with this more fragile escort.

Those not interested in the link above here's the BOF layout:

Comm Tac: TT1, CSV1, APO1, CRF3
Lt Com Tac: TT1, APB1, APO1
Ens Tac: IwishIwasDead
Lt Eng: EPS1, EPS2
Lt Sci: PH1, HE2

DOF Setup:
Energy Wep. Reduce cooldown of canon special attacks.
Conx2. Reduce cooldown of evasives.
Shield Distro. Shield heal on brace for impact.

Ship layout:
Fore Weapons: 4xDHC
Rear Weapons: 3xTurrets
Disruptors to help the real damage dealers (as well as yourself).

Deflector: Borg
Impluse: Borg
Shield: M.A.C.O

Tac Consoles: 5xDisruptor+
Eng Consoles: Neutronium, Borg, Theta
Sci Consoles: Field Genx2

For a more aggressive setup (for instance in a premade where you have a trusted healer) you could swap the borg deflector and engine with the omega to get the glider happening.
The bottom line is this.

PvP is about spike damage (TAC) + window of opportunity (SCI) + the speed at which support is at hand (ENG/ SCI).

Put an ENG in a escort is not a good team dynamic because you are sacrificing all your strengths for 60 - 75% strength of an TAC in an escort.

The reverse is the same for an TAC in a cruiser. The TAC may get the numbers, but half of what his full potential is in an escort, and he just cannot match the defensive capability of a engineer in a cruiser support role.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,218
# 18
10-14-2012, 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
The bottom line is this.

PvP is about spike damage (TAC) + window of opportunity (SCI) + the speed at which support is at hand (ENG/ SCI).

Put an ENG in a escort is not a good team dynamic because you are sacrificing all your strengths for 60 - 75% strength of an TAC in an escort.

The reverse is the same for an TAC in a cruiser. The TAC may get the numbers, but half of what his full potential is in an escort, and he just cannot match the defensive capability of a engineer in a cruiser support role.
A tactical in the right cruiser can be real nasty so i disagree about no tacs in cruisers....
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 19
10-14-2012, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
A tactical in the right cruiser can be real nasty so i disagree about no tacs in cruisers....
Hi Naz! Never said they couldn't but, can I maybe convince you that TAC in an escort better serves it full potential in terms of spike damage?

And to get those same results in a cruiser the TAC must forego the role of what the cruiser's strengths are.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 10-14-2012 at 12:39 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 20
10-14-2012, 12:59 PM
I've had a lot of fun with an Engiscort over the weekend. Against serious folks I wouldn't bother but you can kill people in the queues, why not? DHCs still hit like a beast no matter who's holding them, hell I barely have a single pip into crit and I'm still getting them left and right.

MVAE

Weapons:

3 x Lulzarized Disrupt0rs, 1 x DBB
3 x turrets

Skills:

TT, C:RF1, BO3, AP:O3
TT, C:RF1
EPtS1, EPtS2
HE1, TSS2, ES2 (is there an Energy Siphon 3 at Lt. Com.? IDK)

Two things to note:

a) You are unkillable in this ship. Seriously there's no excuse for dying (that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to pop, though... if I do it, it's all intentional)

b) With a Deflector DOff proc, you will have ES up every fifteen seconds.

For one thing, so long as you have at least one target neither your shields nor your weapons will never drop below 125 the whole game, and your engines and aux won't be much lower. When you have EPS up (use it before you BO3) your power levels will all be at 125 for at least fifteen seconds. You'll hit hard and tank better than the turtliest of cruisers.

Sadly the ES debuff component is easily cleared by Hazards, but it's not a big deal.

If you want to have a lot of fun, and who doesn't, feel free to give her a spin. Just make sure you credit the Grand Poobah Shimmerless when you rock the damage/healing charts come end game.
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