Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 11
10-14-2012, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
Compared to canons their junk. without skill points they do MARKEDLY less DPS than a DHC in their place. To suggest otherwise just shows you don;t actually pay attention to your gear.

Also cannons have equal damage modifiers vs sheilds and hull, (100% as fa as i can tell), which is the same as torps vs hull. But the cannons do more sheild damage. It's a no brainer. (on my KD toon a photon torp is 523DPS, a Dual cnanon 600DPS, both MK X whites, and this is without MKXII Purple Tac consles). Now sure if you have points in kenetics...
DHCs will never crit as hard as torps, and "DPS" is utterly meaningless when it comes to the latter.

I'm not really pushing for torps or recommending them over DHCs as far as the OP is concerned, I'm just saying that you're hugely exaggerating the weaknesses of kinetics. The trouble comes from TT and shield dissipation, their base damages are fine.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 12
10-14-2012, 03:19 PM
Torps don't fire as often as cannons. And sorry but yess DPS does matter to crits. Assuming equivelent modifiers and thus the same crit chance and crit magnitudes crits will boost base DPS by the same %. So even if they crit harder, it averages out.

Sounds more like your a PvP'r yourself. there i agree the burst is worth it, but PVE is all about maxamised sustained DPS.

Also i agree kenetics are worth it. WHEN you put skill points into them, it all comes down to your build TBH .
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11
# 13
10-14-2012, 04:06 PM
I swapped out my fore slots for DHCs and my aft slots with turrets and it's working pretty good so far! Thank you. Just need to do those missions to get encrypted data chips to cash them in for Borge gear. What's the alternative to using Borg modifications? MACO or OMEGA? I need a bit of info on the last two!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 14
10-14-2012, 04:09 PM
Yes the alternative is MACO or OMEGA, but the 2 and 3 set bonusus of the Borg set are worth so much more that only specific builds should use more than the sheilds. the only reason to use the sheilds is that A) the 4-set borg bonus isn't very good and B) the MACO/OMEGA sheilds have much better resistances. Given your allready super speedy in an escort you'll probably do better with MACO, but eithier works.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 523
# 15
10-15-2012, 01:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroburn View Post
I've only just returned to the game so I'm sure my ship layout isn't as efficient as it ought to be.

Fore weapons: phaser beam array, quantum torpedo launcher, phaser dual heavy cannons, phaser dual cannons

Deflector: graviton deflector array

Impulse: assimilated subtranswarp engines

Shields: covariant shield array [cap]x2

Aft weapons: phaser beam array, phaser turret, phaser turret

Engineering consoles: RCS accelerator, RCS accelerator

Science consoles: flow capacitor, power insulator, countermeasure system

Tactical consoles: prefire chamber, prefire chamber, phaser relay, directed energy distribution manifold

Any feedback is appreciated, thanks.
forget about it:

front: 3xDHC 1xtorpedo
rear 3xturrets

boffs layout:

tact lt cmd: TT1, ATB1, APO1
tact cmd: THY1, THY2, CRF2, CRF3

eng lt: EPtS1, EPtS2

sci ensign HE1
sci lt TSS1, TSS2

use 3 x purple conn officers TT variant

also use maco shield and 3 borg set pieces

p.s.
you can use TS and/or CSV instead of THY and/or CRF

Last edited by eurialo; 10-15-2012 at 01:56 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 157
# 16
10-15-2012, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
And people running stupid builds like this are what annoys the hell out of me the most.

beam Overload applies a HUGE negetive wepaons power spike when fired. the resultant lost DPS over the next severla seconds is as great or greater than the bonus damage from the beam overload. result your no better or even worse off in terms of total damage output, and since your runnign an escort you could and should have been running an extra DHC in the place of that dual beam bank and doing even more DPS.

Bam overload is great where you need to front load your damage, (PVP enemies sicne they heal loads), but in any situation where there's no healing it's at best of no benefit, and at worst an outright downside.

Torps on an escort i'm somewhat not sold on as well. It's more personal prefferance but i find the skill points spent on kenetics could go better elsewhere. Though if you want to run a set of mines i'd say it makes sense, (Plasma mines are best PVE mines IMHO), and mines are good with borg bonus or lots of +crit chance.

DHC vs DC's is an easy anwser.

DHCs's do the same DPS, drain slightly more power, but fire more damaging shots at a slower rate. All your trading off is less weapon procs for less power drain. in raw PVE terms the latter outweighs the former mostly, but PvP DC's probably make much more sense as the proc can be so handy.
Try it before denying it....the power drain is not a big deal because the use of cannons allows for energy recharge....EPtW takes care of the rest.

Notice...ONE dual beam bank...!

It works as good if not better than what you describe for pve.

Edit: DBB on bo1 with tac crits for 10-75k! The torps are crit for 5-40k. Can you make up for that in three volleys of cannons....lol!

Last edited by scbypwr; 10-15-2012 at 07:45 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 351
# 17
10-15-2012, 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scbypwr View Post
Try it before denying it....the power drain is not a big deal because the use of cannons allows for energy recharge....EPtW takes care of the rest.

Notice...ONE dual beam bank...!

It works as good if not better than what you describe for pve.

Edit: DBB on bo1 with tac crits for 10-75k! The torps are crit for 5-40k. Can you make up for that in three volleys of cannons....lol!
i run
1 DHC, 1 Quantum, 1 DC, and one DBB in front
3 turrets in back

Beam overload is insane and if you have a weapons battery or in my case red matter capacitor you can mitigate the power loss instantly and hammer away it is a nice combo i do to keep up the DPS with my defiant and it works great at punching shields in the face and lowering them significantly or dropping that facing altogether. i like having one DC and one DHC with the DBB for sustained firepower with CRF. I reccomend to the OP most of what the other people have said but trade up most systems for borg/ MACO or have that deflector a Omega force deflector since it gives a accuracy bonus which can provide a bonus to crits.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 18
10-15-2012, 04:01 PM
Quote:
Beam overload is insane and if you have a weapons battery or in my case red matter capacitor you can mitigate the power loss instantly and hammer away it is a nice combo i do to keep up the DPS with my defiant and it works great at punching shields in the face and lowering them significantly or dropping that facing altogether. i like having one DC and one DHC with the DBB for sustained firepower with CRF. I reccomend to the OP most of what the other people have said but trade up most systems for borg/ MACO or have that deflector a Omega force deflector since it gives a accuracy bonus which can provide a bonus to crits.
BO recharges far faster than that. Again where tasling PVE. Sure in PVP you can pull stuff liek that, but in PVE it has to be sustainable. Hiting a batery every time is not.

Quote:
Edit: DBB on bo1 with tac crits for 10-75k! The torps are crit for 5-40k. Can you make up for that in three volleys of cannons....lol!
Ohh i'll easilly beat that, largely becuase a torp/DBB does not do anywhere near that amonunt of damage. before you try posting made up numbers check they are actually resonable.

Even a Plasma Torp with THY3 is only doing 4x Base damage, even with doubled crit magnitude and no target DR you would still need a torp doing 5K base. Guess what. It can't. DBB's are the same, BO 1 is a 4 times multipler. a 75K crit would need a base damage of aro8nd 9K, even a 10K crit needs a base damage of about 1.25K (possibble at least.

Lets look at some more realistic numbers, (ignoring acc bonus crit magnitude as it varies so much):

These numbers are taken from my all energy build KDF escort with MKX Plasma Beams/DHC and MK X Photon Torpedo

DHC base 1300.6 damage (867.1DPS)
DBB Bo1 Base 5865.6 damage (968.2 damage, (770.2DPS) in ordinary firing mode).
Photon Torpedo THY3 damage of 2524.1 * 4 (10096.4 total), base DPS is 523.1DPS, (3.4K per shot).


Crit chance and crit magnitude is equal so the only considerations are the effects of wepons power.
First and foremost a continual 2X crit multplier is possibble but highly unlikly. But even in that case your looking at a max crit of 20K for torps, 11.5K for beams with abilities.

Obviouslly if you go for more damaging MKXII or Fleet weapons it will go up a bit, but not to the numbers you claim. Nowhere near.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 157
# 19
10-16-2012, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
BO recharges far faster than that. Again where tasling PVE. Sure in PVP you can pull stuff liek that, but in PVE it has to be sustainable. Hiting a batery every time is not.



Ohh i'll easilly beat that, largely becuase a torp/DBB does not do anywhere near that amonunt of damage. before you try posting made up numbers check they are actually resonable.

Even a Plasma Torp with THY3 is only doing 4x Base damage, even with doubled crit magnitude and no target DR you would still need a torp doing 5K base. Guess what. It can't. DBB's are the same, BO 1 is a 4 times multipler. a 75K crit would need a base damage of aro8nd 9K, even a 10K crit needs a base damage of about 1.25K (possibble at least.

Lets look at some more realistic numbers, (ignoring acc bonus crit magnitude as it varies so much):

These numbers are taken from my all energy build KDF escort with MKX Plasma Beams/DHC and MK X Photon Torpedo

DHC base 1300.6 damage (867.1DPS)
DBB Bo1 Base 5865.6 damage (968.2 damage, (770.2DPS) in ordinary firing mode).
Photon Torpedo THY3 damage of 2524.1 * 4 (10096.4 total), base DPS is 523.1DPS, (3.4K per shot).


Crit chance and crit magnitude is equal so the only considerations are the effects of wepons power.
First and foremost a continual 2X crit multplier is possibble but highly unlikly. But even in that case your looking at a max crit of 20K for torps, 11.5K for beams with abilities.

Obviouslly if you go for more damaging MKXII or Fleet weapons it will go up a bit, but not to the numbers you claim. Nowhere near.
Go away...your numbers are bogus because if your weapons are hitting for that little...you missed a day in class!

DHCs - unbuffed 1963.6 damage (1309.1 DPS) buffed 4076 (2600 DPS)

DC - Same as above

Dual beam bank - unbuffed 1366.8 damage (1093.4 DPS). Buffed 14463 damage (9642 DPS)

torpedo unbuffed 4905.3 (577.1dps) buffed - 5099 x 4

Turret unbuffed 507.8 (677.1 DPS) buffed - 1041 (1429.8 DPS)

Next time before getting a tiff about something you know little about...take a look at the streaming numbers above your target as you are shooting them. You might see some numbers that wouldn't make sense to you by your logic.

Good luck with that!

Edit: The other intangible that you are forgetting is the use of attack pattern beta to debuff the targets I am shooting at.

Have a good one

Last edited by scbypwr; 10-16-2012 at 07:00 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 20
10-16-2012, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroburn View Post
I've only just returned to the game so I'm sure my ship layout isn't as efficient as it ought to be.

Fore weapons: phaser beam array, quantum torpedo launcher, phaser dual heavy cannons, phaser dual cannons

Deflector: graviton deflector array

Impulse: assimilated subtranswarp engines

Shields: covariant shield array [cap]x2

Aft weapons: phaser beam array, phaser turret, phaser turret

Engineering consoles: RCS accelerator, RCS accelerator

Science consoles: flow capacitor, power insulator, countermeasure system

Tactical consoles: prefire chamber, prefire chamber, phaser relay, directed energy distribution manifold

Any feedback is appreciated, thanks.
You want a regnerative shield and Nutronium Hull plating instead of the RSC consol and the quatum torpedo consol get rid of the direct energy consol.
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