Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 71
10-16-2012, 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Didn't Borticus state somewhere that shield resistances are computed additively, not multiplicatively? That would explain your observation (which I share), with shield damage resistance coming from energy levels, MACO, EPTS, possibly TSS adding up to 80, maybe even 90%...
No, it wouldn't. I compare my ship just as it is, with gear and all, to the exact same ship with EPtoS running. And the difference is extreme...
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,345
# 72
10-16-2012, 03:33 AM
So you are saying it looks to you as if EPTS was bugged and doing more than the tooltip claims?
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 73
10-16-2012, 04:21 AM
There is nothing wrong with EPTS... some people simply don't understand what it does... its funny cause I think this all got a go over not that long ago in some carrier tac thread I think....

Anyway Here is why EPTS makes shields seem so much harder. (if someone is speced properly at least)

1) Natural Regen bonus.... Yes I know everyone has told me that Natural Regen sucks.... BZZZZ wrong answer.

At 50 shield power setting your shield provides you the number listed on the shield in regen... every 6 seconds... It Applies this number to all 4 facings.

For every point of power over 50 your shield regen will go up 4%... so long story short every 25 points over 50 your shield regen doubles.

So lets assume someone has a maco mk xii shield... Lets assume the have a half decent spec and lets assume they are sitting at 65 shield power with out EPTS up...
This gives them 250 shield regen per face with out EPTS.... now lets factor in EPTS 1
They now have lets say 90 shield power.... they now have 405 shield regen per face.

People laugh at natural regen for some reason... and I think there crazy natural regen is fantastic as long as you can keep your shield power around the 100 mark... which isn't hard to do... at 125 power with the maco shield you get a wooping 624 regen per face with the maco mk xii..... That is not trivial.

2) Natural shield power resist value... At 125 shield power, shield power alone will impart a 35% damage reduction to your shield.
So again assuming our shield we are shooting at is keeping EPTS up and a half decent base amount of shield power we can assume there base shield resist is 20-30%

3) ...and yes Shield Resists are multiplicative and you can calculate actual resist as follows.....
1 - (1-Resist) * (1-Resist)

So if you want to know why people are hard to kill cylcing EPTS... here is the simple answer.... Lets assume our target has;
- shield power with EPTS up of 110
- is running EPTS 1... for a bonus 18% shield dmg reduction. (I'm not in game and don't fee like looking up a speced number its higher I know)
- is running a Maco MK XII shield

So our target would have
1 - (1-.18) * (1-.30) * (1-.10) so our target ends up with a
48% dmg reduction on there shield. VS all energy dmg
accept Plasma....
1 - (1-.18) * (1-.30) * (1-.10) * (1-.20) They end up with a 58% resist to plasma.

Now They also have thanks to EPTS a 536 Point per facing boost from natural regen every 6 seconds... that of course has a 50+& resist value on it as well.

So yes long story short EPTS is a powerful ability... cause it boosts resistance in 2 ways... and the boost to natural regen is no small thing. Maco has a pretty good regen and is pretty popular but something like the borg shield at the same power settings would have a 1067 per facing natural heal at that power setting.
Natural regen is no joke and it always boggles my mind to see people complain about it... natural regen alone + tac team is pretty darn good. (I mean thinkk about it with the maco which is no regen shield you get 2000k+ shield points back every 6 seconds thanks to tac team, double that if you have a regen shield like the borg on)

EDIT Talking about resist values and why people can be so darn hard to kill..... again... with just EPTS you can get your shield resist to sit at 40-50%... throw in a TSS and for 15 sec you will be very close to shield cap... have one sci on your team hit sci fleet and again you will be pretty much at shield cap for 30 seconds....
Does EPTS need to give bonus resist values at all ? that is a good question really... It would be interesting to see how the game would change if EPTS resist values where halved or more.

Last edited by husanakx; 10-16-2012 at 04:36 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 411
# 74
10-16-2012, 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
1) Natural Regen bonus.... Yes I know everyone has told me that Natural Regen sucks.... BZZZZ wrong answer.


People laugh at natural regen for some reason... and I think there crazy natural regen is fantastic as long as you can keep your shield power around the 100 mark... which isn't hard to do... at 125 power with the maco shield you get a wooping 624 regen per face with the maco mk xii..... That is not trivial.
Thats why the borg shield is the best choice af you run always >100 power. Even the Omega has very high regen.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 75
10-16-2012, 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudiefix1 View Post
Thats why the borg shield is the best choice af you run always >100 power. Even the Omega has very high regen.
Ya on most cruisers I would say borg or omega is idea... on an escort its more a matter of taste I think... the extra 10% dmg reduction on the maco is nice... and you can count on another 2-4% of dmg reduction from the power bump from the maco when your under fire. Not to mention that you will most likely have a lower cap bonus and most escorts only really have room for 1-2 Field gens... so something like the borg could easily end up with only 7k in shields per facing... That is workable however it leaves less of a gap in reaction time.
Pros and Cons I guess... maco is a nice balance of regen and cap I think for an escort... for cruisers and sci ships... ya I think omega or borg is the best fit myself. They can easily both get pushed well over 10k cap wise on those ships, at that point being able to goose 4k in regen every 6 seconds is pretty sweet.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,394
# 76
10-16-2012, 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
Ya on most cruisers I would say borg or omega is idea... on an escort its more a matter of taste I think... the extra 10% dmg reduction on the maco is nice... and you can count on another 2-4% of dmg reduction from the power bump from the maco when your under fire. Not to mention that you will most likely have a lower cap bonus and most escorts only really have room for 1-2 Field gens... so something like the borg could easily end up with only 7k in shields per facing... That is workable however it leaves less of a gap in reaction time.
Pros and Cons I guess... maco is a nice balance of regen and cap I think for an escort... for cruisers and sci ships... ya I think omega or borg is the best fit myself. They can easily both get pushed well over 10k cap wise on those ships, at that point being able to goose 4k in regen every 6 seconds is pretty sweet.
I'll be honest, since the MACO has been released, personally every other shield in game on Fed side has become irrelevant. Its got the best of all worlds. Even looking at the advanced fleet shilds the MACO has the edge.

Very recently i ran borg for a week on various ships. On all i could definately feel the "weakness" compared to the MACO. Yes it has the highest regen, but if tyou have the resistance, you dont have to regen as much so back to MACO.

My only hope is that the elite fleet shields become a good alternative, not a must have like the MACO is.

From a healer point of view, i notice the difference. I have to prioritise the team mates running none MACO a lot more.

As an escort, i have to use my tac teams a hell of a lot more to move shilds to facings due to lack of resistances. However, in a premade match i do feel covariant cap 3's have a place if you trust your healers enough.

As a sci there is a possibility of using high regen shields, again i personally needed a tac team on my build due to lack of shield resistance.

What Husanak says about natural regen, i totally agree with. People for some reason heavily underestimate how good that can actually be, not forgetting to mention the higher resistance which scales with higher shield power with the added resistance of epts.

And for some reason, he who shall not be mentioned, seems to have a crusade against epts. Correct me if i'm wrong, but didnt he say it was useless at one point? Why the sudden change?
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Last edited by naz4; 10-16-2012 at 05:52 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,769
# 77
10-16-2012, 06:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
There is nothing wrong with EPTS...
Exactly right. Though les pepites will disagree. Something must be wrong somewhere, if not everywhere, to explain why they do so poorly in a cruiser.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,288
# 78
10-16-2012, 07:12 AM
It all has to do with scaling.

The more shield you got, the better resistance becomes
The faster the shield regens (base), the better regen and resistance becomes

And at the same time strait up heals become worse as they do not scale with the shield itself. Same with hull heals. This is why EPTS is so much more common post F2P as shield amounts have greatly increased.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 79
10-16-2012, 07:24 AM
Also: resists increase the effectiveness of (manual) shield rebalancing because the "effective hitpoints" that are moved per second increase.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 80
10-16-2012, 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakehilbert View Post
Also: resists increase the effectiveness of (manual) shield rebalancing because the "effective hitpoints" that are moved per second increase.
Good point.
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