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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 770
# 11
10-18-2012, 09:03 AM
And the new player will learn even faster if their actions have the consequence of the STF failing. The problem is not with people who are willing to learn, it's with people who, for whatever reason, are preventing the tasks at hand from being accomplished. People need to realize that their personal approach has effects on the way other people spend their time. It's amazing that you preach 'exercizing patience' in the same breath that you say "I don't wait for someone to say go".

You don't care if your teammates fail during your process.

The admission of that kind of selfishness is the best argument I've ever heard for a 'vote kick'.
Vice Admiral Aznia Deet, Federation Ambassador, U.S.S. Federalist
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 961
# 12
10-18-2012, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azniadeet View Post
And the new player will learn even faster if their actions have the consequence of the STF failing. The problem is not with people who are willing to learn, it's with people who, for whatever reason, are preventing the tasks at hand from being accomplished. People need to realize that their personal approach has effects on the way other people spend their time. It's amazing that you preach 'exercizing patience' in the same breath that you say "I don't wait for someone to say go".

You don't care if your teammates fail during your process.

The admission of that kind of selfishness is the best argument I've ever heard for a 'vote kick'.
Sorry. I am not a player who needs someone to hold my hand.

I can learn on my own through a trial and error process. Once certain questions do arise, I will then seek out their answers.

Not everything is in black and white.

Please reread my posts to see the flaw in your approach.

How about the player who has learning issues? Some players suffer from ADHD. Some are slower learners than others. How would you approach them? Do you yell at them for causing you to fail? Or, do you use patience? Are you going to 'vote kick' someone for not being able to keep up? Many of those people have their own style of learning.

Last edited by linyive; 10-18-2012 at 09:15 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 41
# 13
10-18-2012, 12:14 PM
Would be great for elite, not so good for normal though..except an AFK algorithm for both.. but as far as inadequate teams (usually speaking about skittles and those running Mk V's weapons still) and having a bad member of a team messing it up, this would be good I think.

Normal is there for those wanting to get their feet in STFs first, a bit of learning, maybe aquiring a Mk X/XI set of something and perhaps to do some experimenting before elite, so those going into normal should expect this.. Elite though, if a group here has failed, yea it usually is better to end it for the mercy of all, and most in elite would recognize when its time.

All together though, I have very rarely had an elite fail completly, so to me, it isn't a very critical issue.
---
"We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile."
Sincerely,
The Cube Assimilating Your Ship Right Now
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 777
# 14
10-20-2012, 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhq View Post
Normal is there for those wanting to get their feet in STFs first, a bit of learning, maybe aquiring a Mk X/XI set of something and perhaps to do some experimenting before elite, so those going into normal should expect this.. Elite though, if a group here has failed, yea it usually is better to end it for the mercy of all, and most in elite would recognize when its time.
It occurs to me that a big part of the problem is that as you get promoted through the Admiral ranks and start becoming eligible to use Mk XI and XII gear, grinding Normal STFs for Mk X gear (and no salvage other than EDCs, IIRC) becomes kind of pointless, n00b or not. After all, if you must grind at all in an MMO, you might as well seek out the most lucrative grinding opportunities possible - hence, legions of STF n00bs grinding at the Elite level, regardless of their skill at it.

In all honesty, the only way I can see to circumvent this problem would be to make drops and rewards the same at both levels, except give the Elite missions, say, a 5-10% chance of also yielding some uber-valuable item that can otherwise only be found in a lockbox or the Z-store (or nowhere else at all), thus drastically reducing the incentive for n00bs to grind Elite missions while still giving non-n00bs something to shoot for. And if that doesn't do the trick, just throw in the towel and abandon the two-tier STF system entirely.

Last edited by paxfederatica; 10-20-2012 at 08:12 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 972
# 15
10-20-2012, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azniadeet View Post
Always a hot topic of discussion is what to do with STFs when someone goes AFK, or when a team has newbies who won't listen to instruction, or who don't speak the language, and just can't complete the tasks at hand...

Leaver Penalties are often unfair, as a group can repeatedly try to accomplish a goal, and because of inexperienced, not listening, griefing, or AFK players: they just can't move on- Who takes the leaver penalty? When it gets bad enough, it's often merciful for someone to 'take one for the team' and leave.

Some people propose a "vote kick" function. But this would certainly lead to abuse. Inexperienced players who are legitimately trying to learn could be abused by impatient veterans, and that would discourage them from continuing to learn the STFs.

So what to do? We've got players who are beyond redemption who screw things up for everyone else, and we've got players who are trying to learn but just might make mistakes. How do we balance a merciful solution that doesn't punish anyone for leaving if they're left with no other choice, and doesn't discouage new players from learning?

My proposed solution is a "Vote End" function. Rather than voting to kick any one player, this would be a function to simply end the STF with no leaver fees. If three players on a team agree that the team is incapable of moving on, they can activate a vote function to simply end the STF with no penalty to anyone on the team. This allows everyone to reset and doesn't allow for any functional abuse. A "Vote End" function is the best answer!

YES PLS.

id love something like this.

eg. infected ground and half the team refuse to jump or reaptedly jump in plasma so they dont have to do anything. the amount of times i seen a team that is not even capable of pressing space bar or understand that 3 people are needed ALIVE to click the consoles.

then if u stay its not going anywhere they are not going to complete it in a million years u got two choices get a ban for leaving or sit and watch the team fail for a few hours til someone quits.

vote YES on end match vote
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,173
# 16
10-20-2012, 11:11 PM
This idea has merit. AFKers are becoming a serious problem.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 39
# 17
10-22-2012, 03:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azniadeet View Post
Always a hot topic of discussion is what to do with STFs when someone goes AFK, or when a team has newbies who won't listen to instruction, or who don't speak the language, and just can't complete the tasks at hand...

Leaver Penalties are often unfair, as a group can repeatedly try to accomplish a goal, and because of inexperienced, not listening, griefing, or AFK players: they just can't move on- Who takes the leaver penalty? When it gets bad enough, it's often merciful for someone to 'take one for the team' and leave.

Some people propose a "vote kick" function. But this would certainly lead to abuse. Inexperienced players who are legitimately trying to learn could be abused by impatient veterans, and that would discourage them from continuing to learn the STFs.

So what to do? We've got players who are beyond redemption who screw things up for everyone else, and we've got players who are trying to learn but just might make mistakes. How do we balance a merciful solution that doesn't punish anyone for leaving if they're left with no other choice, and doesn't discouage new players from learning?

My proposed solution is a "Vote End" function. Rather than voting to kick any one player, this would be a function to simply end the STF with no leaver fees. If three players on a team agree that the team is incapable of moving on, they can activate a vote function to simply end the STF with no penalty to anyone on the team. This allows everyone to reset and doesn't allow for any functional abuse. A "Vote End" function is the best answer!
It will be abused by so called vets, one time read at forum one so called elite vet left his team cause he found out 1 of the team mates had less than 500 accolade points...
3 vets will abuse it and newbies wont know why the match ended, and after a while they will feel segregated and leave game. Now there is a solution: don't PUG if you are not ready to risk failure cause of unknown team members, join an active fleet or STF channel and STF with people you meet in those

Last edited by glxtrader1; 10-22-2012 at 03:37 AM. Reason: typo
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10
# 18
10-24-2012, 11:37 AM
I would like to see something, anything done to combat the growing issue of people AFKing/idling in STFs. I just encountered my fourth AFKer in only two days in the last ESTF I ran, and we pretty much agreed to intentionally fail rather than let the leecher get free loot. Does using the "Report to GM" option even do anything? Because it certainly does seem to be deterring this sort of behavior.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 109
# 19 STF AFKers
10-31-2012, 11:16 PM
I just spent over an hour in a Khitomer elite, three manning it. We had one that just sat AFK the entire time. Failed the optional and almost didn't stop enough probes, then spent the next... however insanely long it was, trying to kill the boss.

Why isn't there some way to kick the AFKers and get them replaced?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 20
10-31-2012, 11:19 PM
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