Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,099
# 81
10-18-2012, 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
Of course we won't what we will see people using KHG/MACO/OMEGA, not anything else no one (or at least less than now) is going to use underpowered Breen/Jem/Aegis 3 piece sets. You know it and I know. So we've gone from 3 piece + 1 OMEGA/KHG/MACO (3 different sets) to OMEGA/KHG/MACO (3 different sets). No change. Simple so less diversity than before. There are a hell of a lot of people including myself using 2 piece sets and mixing fleet or jem/breen/aegis and that will all be gone. So no there will be a reduction not an increase in diversity.

Like I said I am fine with nerfing this set, but not if it means the other sets remain broken/underpowered.

Sorry but it is what it is; a loss of diversity.
Seeing as hardly anyone uses the 3 pc stf sets seeing more people use them even if the other 3pc sets like Breen/aegis/jem/ aren't used much is still more diversity.

Right now its probably like 90% or some really high percentage only use 3pc borg with stf shield.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 82
10-18-2012, 11:10 AM
So yeah, let's totaly honk off that 90% for no good, objective reason.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 83
10-18-2012, 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
Seeing as hardly anyone uses the 3 pc stf sets seeing more people use them even if the other 3pc sets like Breen/aegis/jem/ aren't used much is still more diversity.

Right now its probably like 90% or some really high percentage only use 3pc borg with stf shield.
If we take your statistic to be true...

So you want to replace 90% who have

3 piece Borg + OMEGA or 3 piece Borg + MACO or 3 Piece Borg + KHG

with 90% who have

MACO or OMEGA or KHG.


instead of having a like 12 different combinations, we're going to be reduced to 3... unless they actually do something with the other sets to make them useful at end game.

It's basically the same thing, apart from the fact that more people will have useless final tier powers like Graviton beam.

Last edited by thisisoverlord; 10-18-2012 at 11:34 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 84
10-18-2012, 11:53 AM
Erm we had 1 combo fed side, 2 kdf side. o sane fed used anything but the MACO sheild if they where min-maxing as it's the ebst of the lot. KDf could argue eitheir way on HG vs OMEGA. So e went from 3 combos max to 4, assuming people don't go 2pc + 1pc/no set pc. Hate to break the news to you but borg sheild is viable, it just isn't OMGWTFBBQ OP like the 3pc borg + stf sheild combo's.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 85
10-18-2012, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
Erm we had 1 combo fed side, 2 kdf side. o sane fed used anything but the MACO sheild if they where min-maxing as it's the ebst of the lot. KDf could argue eitheir way on HG vs OMEGA. So e went from 3 combos max to 4, assuming people don't go 2pc + 1pc/no set pc. Hate to break the news to you but borg sheild is viable, it just isn't OMGWTFBBQ OP like the 3pc borg + stf sheild combo's.
You're right everyone on the Fed side will just run full MACO from now on :p

Heh, I'm actually thinking of running 6 piece borg (both 3 piece combo's) on my D'Kyr...

Seems to me like this was the perfect opportunity to update the other 3 piece sets and it seems like they haven't done so.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 416
# 86
10-18-2012, 12:04 PM
This is one factor in why I don't PvP. If something changes, you've got to completely change up how you play.

Give me NPCs and STFs where I can be slightly under-powered (lack of resources for certain gear, lack of time to earn gear, etc.) but still can deliver the hits.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 318
# 87
10-18-2012, 01:05 PM
God, I just tried out the three piece sets for MACO and Omega Force, and the third set bonuses both SUCK! Omega Force two piece bonus is good, but the MACO second piece bonus is MEH! If you're going to mess with the Borg set, then I hope the Devs improve these other sets at the same time.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 38
# 88
10-18-2012, 01:07 PM
The problem is this...do the devs pvp, form my knowledge no. I could be wrong.

The AI is a joke, in 15 years of gaming I have never seen a worse AI, granted it may be due to the engine. Also as a rule of them if its too good, then except it to be nerfed, hence the term, apadt and elove. Their are many ways to skin a cat, the problem is it takes effort to do so through =\

Edit: Yes the other sets 3 piece doesnt compare, probably going to see 2/2 mix. Hmm would just make Aiges come back....heh.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,137
# 89
10-18-2012, 01:57 PM
At the risk of re-igniting the flames, allow me to attempt to explain the reasoning behind this change...

The Borg Space Set was originally balanced around the concept of players using all four pieces. This included the Regenerative Shield.

After the set went live, it became very evident that the vast majority of players did not wish to use the Borg Shield. Instead, they began running 2- and 3-piece conglomerations of Borg Set + Other Shields (and frequently Other Engines or Deflectors).

The trouble this presented, is that the passive heal procs present on the 2- and 3-piece Borg Set bonuses were intended originally to offset the downside presented by having a low-capacity shield array in an end-game environment where heavy spike damage was present (STFs). When you remove that shield from the mix, and replace it with a high-capacity alternative, you begin to receive all of the benefits and none of the downsides.

Hence an imbalance came to pass.

Even after the Borg Set Bonuses were toned down several months ago, nothing really changed. The vast majority of players continued to run Borg 2- or 3-piece, plus a shield of their choosing, benefiting from a design oversight to a degree that left combat in an imbalanced state.

By removing the Console from the Borg Space Set, we've brought a semblance of balance back to that equation. Now, in order to benefit from the set bonuses in the manner that was originally intended, players must use the Shield that was intended to be a part of the package as a whole.

This is not a change we undertook lightly, as we're always hesitant to take things away from players that have already earned them through a potentially time-consuming process. In fact, this is why we added the previous 4-piece bonus (Borg Tractor Beam) to the 3-piece set, instead of including it as one of the bonuses of the new "Alt Set." So that players that had already earned this equipment lost nothing, and did not have to go out and earn new equipment in order to get something they already had.

We're watching the aftermath of all of this very closely to ensure that our motivations for making the choices that we did, match up with the results that players are experiencing. It may come to pass that the Borg Set items, or associated Set Bonuses, now need to be improved under this new design. That's something we'll continue to keep on our radar.

As one result of the feedback we've already received in relation to this change, we're performing another performance review of all of the STF set bonuses, with a specific focus on the 3-piece abilities. This includes the Heavy Graviton Beam, Gravitic Anchor, and Mask Energy Field. All of these powers will be improved in some manner, along with an upcoming patch.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...

Last edited by borticuscryptic; 10-18-2012 at 02:00 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 416
# 90
10-18-2012, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
At the risk of re-igniting the flames, allow me to attempt to explain the reasoning behind this change...

The Borg Space Set was originally balanced around the concept of players using all four pieces. This included the Regenerative Shield.

After the set went live, it became very evident that the vast majority of players did not wish to use the Borg Shield. Instead, they began running 2- and 3-piece conglomerations of Borg Set + Other Shields (and frequently Other Engines or Deflectors).

The trouble this presented, is that the passive heal procs present on the 2- and 3-piece Borg Set bonuses were intended originally to offset the downside presented by having a low-capacity shield array in an end-game environment where heavy spike damage was present (STFs). When you remove that shield from the mix, and replace it with a high-capacity alternative, you begin to receive all of the benefits and none of the downsides.

Hence an imbalance came to pass.

Even after the Borg Set Bonuses were toned down several months ago, nothing really changed. The vast majority of players continued to run Borg 2- or 3-piece, plus a shield of their choosing, benefiting from a design oversight to a degree that left combat in an imbalanced state.

By removing the Console from the Borg Space Set, we've brought a semblance of balance back to that equation. Now, in order to benefit from the set bonuses in the manner that was originally intended, players must use the Shield that was intended to be a part of the package as a whole.

This is not a change we undertook lightly, as we're always hesitant to take things away from players that have already earned them through a potentially time-consuming process. In fact, this is why we added the previous 4-piece bonus (Borg Tractor Beam) to the 3-piece set, instead of including it as one of the bonuses of the new "Alt Set." So that players that had already earned this equipment lost nothing, and did not have to go out and earn new equipment in order to get something they already had.

We're watching the aftermath of all of this very closely to ensure that our motivations for making the choices that we did, match up with the results that players are experiencing. It may come to pass that the Borg Set items, or associated Set Bonuses, now need to be improved under this new design. That's something we'll continue to keep on our radar.

As one result of the feedback we've already received in relation to this change, we're performing another performance review of all of the STF set bonuses, with a specific focus on the 3-piece abilities. This includes the Heavy Graviton Beam, Gravitic Anchor, and Mask Energy Field. All of these powers will be improved in some manner, along with an upcoming patch.
This sounds like the best way to go about it: Change to original intent, but give an incentive to use it over some other set.

Not everything has to be OP to be useful. Just give it enough upside to make a person scratch their head and go "Hmm...Never thought about that before..."
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