Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,839
# 21
10-21-2012, 04:20 PM
I completely agree with the OP.

I'm not going to get upset about it anymore (not if the police is watching ), it won't change anything anyway.

I can only speak for myself, but i think this game had so much potential in the beginning. But the developers went into a whole wrong direction with it. It didn't begin with FTP, STOs developers took a complete wrong approach from the very beginning. FTP and PWE just accelerated and amplified that bad trend.

There was vitrually NOTHING that would have interest me since season 2 and the introduction of the Diplomacy system. Since then every season was just a huge dissappointment. Nothing they introduced was either a improvement or did the game make more Star Trek.
The only thing in the last 1,5 years i liked was the release of the Regent class, but even that wasn't a winner, since i don't like the sovereign design. The second thing i liked was the DOFF system, but as always the developers exaggerated it way too much.
I and others have made hundreds of suggestions but nothing was realized even remotely.


I'm just going to wait until season 7 goes live an i'll take a close look at it. If i don't like what i see, i think i will turn my back on it for a year or so.

Even if STO is the only ongoing Star Trek thing, my patience to wait for this game to become at least a bit more fun has limits. For me, it is a series of one dissappointment to the next one.
To keep playing it would be almost masochistic.

I think i'll start playing the X Series, i find it unbelievable boring, but at least it won't constantly try to get my money.


I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i find it difficult to find the right words in my native language.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
T6 Guardian Class design / A 25th century Ambassador refit

Last edited by yreodred; 10-21-2012 at 04:28 PM. Reason: language issues
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 39
# 22
10-21-2012, 11:18 PM
I'm very concerned about these changes in S7, enough so that it may make me look elsewhere for my MMO time.

I am okay with a certain level of monetization to fuel this kind of MMO f2P model, but with these changes, I think it is going too far.

Starbase stuff has been fun enough i suppose, and came along with some decent rewards, even though it was time and resource-intensive. Adding more grinding on top of that, including adding the Dilithium costs on Doffs ('general recruitment' and the huge increase on 'reassign underperforming') is just too much.

I am now going from an 'occasionally pay some money' player to a 'not paying any money at all' player. They're just getting too greedy.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,065
# 23
10-22-2012, 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff484 View Post
(...) But now I just feel like it's ran by my local used car salesman. Everywhere I look in this game it evolves around either dilithium or lock boxes.
Truer words were never spoken! The above, however, has been said many times already. Strangely enough, though, I don't mind seeing it voiced again. Dunno why... Um, maybe precisely because it's being said so often and then completely ignored by PWE? Yeah, that's probably it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,065
# 24
10-22-2012, 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobar26th View Post
Secondly can I suggest that instead of just raging against the team, you propose alternatives, ideas, feedback and constructive criticism.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous posts, or to take arms against a sea of protests, and by ignoring end them!

Quote:
It's worth remembering that it's a F2P game, that's not likely to change, so it's perhaps worth considering thoughts of 'I don't like monetizing of A, why not monetize B?'
Or C, monetize less, instead of ever more. In a nutshell, this is what it all boils down too:

Don't double-dip. If you make people grind, don't have them pay dilithium too. It's like going to a restaurant: either you simply pay for your food, or they make you do the dishes. But not both.

The rest are just derivatives of the above:

- Don't make people pay fleet ship modules AND fleet credits to get a fleet ship.

- Remove dilithium from the upcoming new STF rewards altogether. Pugging thru sometimes hundreds of STFs is bad enough as it is. To paraphrase the O.J. Simpson lawyer: "If people did the grind, you have to be kind."

- Stop the lockbox insanity, where you expect to get ca. $250 for a fully fitted temporal ship, instead of the usual $25 C-Store prices.

- Put a stop to the ever increasing starbase costs. Fueling a starbase near/at Tier 4, and above, is outrageously expensive already.

- Remove dilithium from the Personal Projects to advance your way through the reputation system. We never had to pay extra dilithium to level up to VA either.

I paid over $300 this month, just to get my temporal ships fitted. You'd think that's a good thing, right? Wrong! Because I, and no doubt many others with me, are getting fed up. Season 7, in its entirety, is looking to become "The Search For More Money." There's a sucker born every minute, right? Wrong again! Because you're risking a sudden collapse of the game. See, people don't just say: "Well, from here on in I will just pay the $300 a month." No, rather they simply quit altogether when they feel they've been exploited too much. You can already see signs of that in this thread.

And for the record, nobody is against PWE monetizing the game a bit to pay the bills, and turn a decent profit too. But when monetizing becomes the game...

Just some friendly feedback.

Last edited by meimeitoo; 10-22-2012 at 01:37 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 868
# 25
10-22-2012, 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
[font="Verdana"][color="SandyBrown"]I completely agree with the OP.

I'm not going to get upset about it anymore (not if the police is watching ), it won't change anything anyway.
Get upset about it! I am, just keep to the rules while posting feedback (assuming the police comment was aimed at me?) They do need to hear the feedback, but just saying 'we don't want it' won't work, we need to be telling them how they should be working too
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,839
# 26
10-22-2012, 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobar26th View Post
Get upset about it! I am, just keep to the rules while posting feedback (assuming the police comment was aimed at me?) They do need to hear the feedback, but just saying 'we don't want it' won't work, we need to be telling them how they should be working too
My comment towards the "police" wasn't serious, i hope you know that.

I am not against cryptic making money. But it is more how they do it. You get constantly remindend to spend money, if it's lockboxes or C/Z Store or if it's the need to spend another currency in game. Those things feel just like work.
There is not sense of wonder, no "let's go out there and explore space".
Some have brought up the term "labor Camp", while i think its a bit exaggerated, the direction of it is true.


Instead of coming up with even more stuff to grind, and "improve" your character/crew/ship, they should have finally come up with something we can do with it.

Let us go explore some unknown regions, let them generate on the run. So everyone has another experience when doing a exploration run. I mean the current exploration system is way too limited. New Civilations should be generated, and we should meet them at a later point to interact with them even more.
BTW: "interaction" doesn't mean killing them!!!


For me STO is too much an usual/generaic MMO, it (maybe) still has the potential to become much more, but to be honest i don't see that with the people in charge.
(sorry to say that.)

I think there is a big missunderstanding, the devs seem to think that giving us something to grind IS the fun of a game, while we are waiting to finally get something else. Something that doesn't feel like work.

I can only speak for myself, but grinding (doing the same mission over and over) and spending huge amounts of resources is not fun. It is just annyoing and boring.



I know they can't do 2-3 missions every week, that's not the point. But they should try to make missions more entertaining. Why don't they implement something like a random generator for some missions, so evertime we play them something unexpected can happen. It doesn't have to be something big, just some small variations would be enough.
Be creative!



I don't know if this belongs here but i really refuse to accept cryptics ship system. I don't want to start this topic here i have written my opinion a hundred times in other threads. LINK, LINK.

Heck we are supposed to be Starfleet Captains, have they visited EDS lately, for instance?
If STO wouldn't have "Star Trek" in its name and some Star Trek looking ships in space, i never would have thought that is is a Trek game.



For everything else i have the same opinion as meimeitoo:
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo

- Don't make people pay fleet ship modules AND fleet credits to get a fleet ship.

- Remove dilithium from the upcoming new STF rewards altogether. Pugging thru sometimes hundreds of STFs is bad enough as it is. To paraphrase the O.J. Simpson lawyer: "If people did the grind, you have to be kind."

- Stop the lockbox insanity, where you expect to get ca. $250 for a fully fitted temporal ship, instead of the usual $25 C-Store prices.

- Put a stop to the ever increasing starbase costs. Fueling a starbase near/at Tier 4, and above, is outrageously expensive already.

- Remove dilithium from the Personal Projects to advance your way through the reputation system. We never had to pay extra dilithium to level up to VA either.
Some additions from me:

I think Cryptic should reconsider judging loyality by the amount of spend money. The Chimera (and its KDF counterpart) and other things should be availlable depending on the time a account exist or maybe become unlocked with a certain amount of accolade points IMHO. But selling a ship (which some have been waiting for over two years) for 200$ is just shameless barefaced.



I can just repeat myself, STO is nowhere fun, it feels just like a money making machine. Everything results in accumulating more Dilithium, Lobi, ZEN, EC or whatever.
(I stopped at the introduction of Lobi.)

This is NOT what a Star Trek game should be about!



I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i find it difficult to find the right words in my native language.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
T6 Guardian Class design / A 25th century Ambassador refit

Last edited by yreodred; 10-22-2012 at 09:12 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 807
# 27
10-22-2012, 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff484 View Post
I also want to add that I absolutely HATE the random drop idea with STFs. I don't like the idea of "play this mission until completely hate it and puke every time you even hear the name before you can get high end gear". What happened to the simple idea of being rewarded for being successful in a mission rather than "Awesome, that mission went smooth... Now after playing that for the 234,562,789th time HOPEFULLY I get the drop I've been waiting for".

You guys add things that NOBODY asked for, that NOBODY wants - Why would you think a reward system like that would work well? Money? There's not dilithium involved to play these missions so it can't be that. Is it for the sole purpose of driving us to the point of insanity? Is it a marketing move in hopes that we'll go crazy from the repetitive play that we'll start forking over money for stupid things?

Ugh... Anyways, apologies again, I just had to vent.
Best I can tell, this new drop system intends to KEEP US PLAYING the SAME MISSIONS over and over and over again to get the epic set that not everyone will get, (regardless of how many times these missions are run), therefore complacency is avoided. Some will never get the carrot at the end of the stick, but hopefully they will keep trying regardless.

Developmentaly speaking, they are getting the biggest bang for their develpment time.
A smart idea in principle, but unfortunately not a very fun, or rewarding experience for the average player, in my opinion.

Fleet starbases are a huge grind, most offen to equip your starbases with silly things like piles of tribbles, a few security personel, tables and chairs, ect. Things that take a short amount of time to develop, but will keep large groups of players grinding/busy/playing.
But when all is said and done, was it an entertaining experience? Did the "reward/goal" reflect the epicness the cost in player's time it required to obtain them?


Even the lockboxes, truth be told, this fun new "content", is not garanteed regardless of participation. But thankfully, the lobi store allows you to "work" towards another ship if you are unlucky. But how much money do you have to spend ? LOTS

The problem I see is this: The casual player, with a job with long hours, family responsibilities and on a limitted budget are going to missout on an ever growing list of new awsomeness.

After working a twelve hour day to pay the bills, coming home and spending a few precious hours with my family, I'm wiped. And lately, been avoiding logging on at all.
I just don't see the daily grind as relaxing, or entertaining anymore.

The stick's gotten to long, obtaining the carrot's requiring too much chance, too much grind, too much dilithium= aka REAL MONEY, and too much of whatever NEW currency's been introduced to the equation.
Now the problem is this, if you take yourself out of this grind, refusing to participate in this merry go round, what is there left to do? Endgame content? Story driven missions? PVP?
A new Romulan faction.......
Thank GOD for those Foundry authors. That's all I got to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Schissler/Online Multiplayer Gaming View Post
(In regards to STO Delta Rising): "Where a fun casual game once sat proudly, a horrible grind fest now stands. All this expansion has made me want to do, is log in less."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 868
# 28
10-22-2012, 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
[font="Verdana"][color="SandyBrown"]My comment towards the "police" wasn't serious, i hope you know that.
Yeah, that was how I read it, just didn't want anyone put off commenting because of me being here

Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post

Let us go explore some unknown regions, let them generate on the run. So everyone has another experience when doing a exploration run. I mean the current exploration system is way too limited. New Civilations should be generated, and we should meet them at a later point to interact with them even more.
BTW: "interaction" doesn't mean killing them!!!
Couldn't agree more, this should have been a day one endeavour, I suspect that we may never fully see that now sadly, but I'd happily wait a year for new updates to content if they could implement something like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post


I know they can't do 2-3 missions every week, that's not the point. But they should try to make missions more entertaining. Why don't they implement something like a random generator for some missions, so evertime we play them something unexpected can happen. It doesn't have to be something big, just some small variations would be enough.
Be creative!
I disagree, I can't see why not if they were to ammend the EULA of the Foundry (if it doesn't already) to give ownership of all missions created to Cryptic/PWE, then have an intern or some such reviewing and porting missions over into the main game similar how patrols are at the minute.


[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post

Some additions from me:

I think Cryptic should reconsider judging loyality by the amount of spend money. The Chimera (and its KDF counterpart) and other things should be availlable depending on the time a account exist or maybe become unlocked with a certain amount of accolade points IMHO. But selling a ship (which some have been waiting for over two years) for 200$ is just shameless barefaced.
I've said it before, I'll say it again - City of Heroes since F2P had an epic rewards system. You got something like 3 points for each month subscribed, and another for every Xpoints bought in their store. Was it better to subscribe? Yes. Was spending a metric ton of money an option too? Yes. And you could spend your reward tokens much like a typical RPG skill tree, picking a path, choosing however many at each level...E.P.I.C.
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,687
# 29
10-22-2012, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
- Don't make people pay fleet ship modules AND fleet credits to get a fleet ship.
I agree; the current scheme feels excessive and I like buying ships from the C-Store. People did the grind to get those fleet credits; they should be able to use them without grinding or paying anything else. Or at least paying a minimal price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
- Remove dilithium from the upcoming new STF rewards altogether. Pugging thru sometimes hundreds of STFs is bad enough as it is. To paraphrase the O.J. Simpson lawyer: "If people did the grind, you have to be kind."
From what I'm reading, simply doing the STF's should reward enough Dilithium to finance or mostly finance STF gear. But with every other Dilithium sink in the game, I'd be willing to bet this comes in as underperforming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
- Stop the lockbox insanity, where you expect to get ca. $250 for a fully fitted temporal ship, instead of the usual $25 C-Store prices.
I understand why lockboxes work for PWE, but I agree that unlocking boxes is still a pretty poor bet. I don't care for the Deflector/Shield boxes and I'm actually getting tired of getting DO packs which I could simply buy direct if I really want them.

Lockboxes shouldn't contain anything that you can just buy outright with Zen, and there should be more stuff we can buy outright with just Zen. If they took out the dull stuff and readjusted the odds accordingly it would be more fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
- Put a stop to the ever increasing starbase costs. Fueling a starbase near/at Tier 4, and above, is outrageously expensive already.
Our small fleet is already stalling out and we're just getting to where we'll have a Tier 2 Starbase with Tier 2 facilities. Tier 3 is just wishful thinking on our part, and probably several months of grind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
- Remove dilithium from the Personal Projects to advance your way through the reputation system. We never had to pay extra dilithium to level up to VA either.
Agreed. Unless the missions we run to obtain reputation marks also award Dilithium, this is too much. Even then, refinement caps will hurt if we're trying to advance this and fleet stuff at the same time.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
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Last edited by bluegeek; 10-22-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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