Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,059
# 301
10-22-2012, 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
Lol where on earth did they state their reasons for this change though? They didn't have the common decency to put that change in the official notes.

As I said before you're in the minority and I believe that our joint play experience outweighs yours. Simply put the Doff system is for the progression in quality of your doffs and the rewards to your xp that brings. That is what it is for to argue that the system was never meant for you to have all purples is a fallacy if that was the case they would have put a cap on the number of purples you could have per department. We all know that isn't the case.

I really don't think there is much more for you to say, you believe that the current amount of dilithium it costs is peanuts and that 5000 is fine for a purple. I know from 2 months of working on the doffs that the current dilithium charge is more than enough and the bottleneck on doffs is already prohibitive... I've only been playing two months and I already know how ridiculous it is to get purple doffs as it is, let alone if they make the up-grinder too expensive to use.

Most of us are against this change and it's time we got some answers.
You've only been playing for 2 months? that explains a lot.....

It's not a democracy.... the guys who make the game make the rules.

And besides, how often do you expect to have to pay the 5k that would be required to compact doffs to make a purple?
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 37
# 302
10-22-2012, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
You've only been playing for 2 months? that explains a lot.....

It's not a democracy.... the guys who make the game make the rules.

And besides, how often do you expect to have to pay the 5k that would be required to compact doffs to make a purple?
Approximately ZERO times, as this tax on DOFFing means that function's ROI far outweighs any benefit to me. Just like DOFF dismissal was nerfed to the ground, Cryptic might as well just remove it from the game.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,806
# 303
10-22-2012, 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diafpwe View Post
I'll be enjoying Halloween events in GW2, where the devs treat their customers with respect.
^^^
I guess this is your first gaming experience with an NCSoft game? -- Give it tme. NCSoft makes PWE/Cryptic look like saints.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 304
10-22-2012, 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
You've only been playing for 2 months? that explains a lot.....

It's not a democracy.... the guys who make the game make the rules.

And besides, how often do you expect to have to pay the 5k that would be required to compact doffs to make a purple?
Actually online games are a lot like a Democracy, people stop voting and democracy ceases to exist, people stop buying the "changes" you make to a game... then you end up like SWG and City of Heroes...

The amount of time I've been playing isn't incredibly relevant as it does not take that long to understand how the doff system works and the bottlenecks that currently inhibit it. Not only that but I am not the only one, in fact I am in the majority of people who do not wish to see this change and we are the majority of people who use and understand the doff system, whereas you are in the minority. I'm not only talking about this thread which has plenty of pages and views... but also everyone on DOFFJOBS ingame.

Do you really think that anyone would be moaning if this was a reasonable change, which is what you wish to portray it as. When we all know the reality is quite different.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,059
# 305
10-22-2012, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
No it's not, but your rewards are so pitiful without at least a roster of blues that IT IS NOT WORTH BOTHERING WITH.

Take this from somone who played the game for 6 months before discovering the compactor. The rewards made it usless. They just don't exist. If you don;t have a roster of mostly blues or purples there smply isn't any point to the system. it's a total and utter waste of tiem and server/HDD space.
really? totally useless? Please do explain why you feel this way, I'm kinda curious as to why you feel that.
Quote:
If you have a quote on intent. Link it. Otherwise shut up. Saying there';s on and then refusing to link it is unsourced claim.
Go read the patch notes.....
Quote:
Frankly this isn't about what right or nt. this is you throwing a tantrum because you had to do it the hard way and you don't like other's having shortcuts. Here's the catch. You might do it that way. 99% of people will just refuse and turn their backs on doff'ing. It's too much effort, and through the grinder too much Dil investment to be worth the all the work. I have a life so do the vast majority of the playerbase. I don't have a family fortunatly, but i suspect that a moderate portion of the playerbase do which cuts their time as well. STO is not a job to us. We will not sit in front of our PC's 8 hours a day grinding away on the doff system, or any other part of the game. If somthing gets to be too biga grind, we give up. We move on to somthing not so grindy.
Wow, that is pathetic...... I don't do that. I don't feel the NEED to have a roster of full blues and purples. Most doff stuff works fine with greens, IMO. Your issue is that you try to use Doffs as the focus of the game. As you've seen already, that doesn't work very well. I login, queue stuff, then swap chars. Or maybe.... play a mission? Ya know like someone who actually plays the game? I also spend a lot of time with Foundry, both on and off Tribble.
Quote:
A tiny handful of fleets are T4. or everyone else green doffs are about the best they can get. Given the huge FM/Dil grind this adds for Starbases working on T3 the number of adittional fleets that will hit T4 is going to drop sharply. The vast majority of the playerbase are NEVER going to have acess to Blue's and Purple's through their starbase. they just aren't large enough to complete the grind, especially with this added on top. So trying to use fleets as an argument is a teribble excuse because it's non-applicable to most.
Again, your issue seems to be a misplaced sense of entitlement to something that just isn't guaranteed. there is nothing in the game that says you should/need to have blue and purple doffs. But you keep talking about how you have/need to have them or something..... Which you don't..... I've been playing for a year and a half, you don't need Doffs for anything.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,806
# 306
10-22-2012, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by willy01pwe View Post
^^ This

I've mentioned the Sony Online Entertainment Combat Upgrade / NGE in several of my posts, glad to see someone else has recognized this (disturbing) similarity.

If you never played Star Wars Galaxies, Google CU or NGE and read about that dark era in developer stupidity. Smedley even went on record stating the changes made to SWG was a big mistake on the Devs / Management's part.
Thing is - Hyperbole dosen't help and the "OMG! It's the NGU/NCE from SWG all over again." routine gets trotted out way too often and starts to loose impact when used for rally against something you don't like in another MMO.

As bad as some of the changes may look, it's nowhere NEAR as bad as what SOE/LA tried to do to SWG in 2005 in hopes to compete directly with WoW at the time (which was the only reason the changes to SWG - coupled with a massive media campaign, including TV ads.)

They're adding (and still itterating a new endgame reputation system - and as a result changing how endgame gear is earned, and adding some new passive powers you can earn in the new process as well.)

STO is NOT ripping out and redoing their Class system, Ground and Space combat system, and mission system in one swoop (Which is what was done to SWG in one major patch to try and make in 'WoW-like'.)

The situation is HARDLY similar in the last.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 307
10-22-2012, 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
really? totally useless? Please do explain why you feel this way, I'm kinda curious as to why you feel that.Go read the patch notes.....Wow, that is pathetic...... I don't do that. I don't feel the NEED to have a roster of full blues and purples. Most doff stuff works fine with greens, IMO. Your issue is that you try to use Doffs as the focus of the game. As you've seen already, that doesn't work very well. I login, queue stuff, then swap chars. Or maybe.... play a mission? Ya know like someone who actually plays the game? I also spend a lot of time with Foundry, both on and off Tribble.Again, your issue seems to be a misplaced sense of entitlement to something that just isn't guaranteed. there is nothing in the game that says you should/need to have blue and purple doffs. But you keep talking about how you have/need to have them or something..... Which you don't..... I've been playing for a year and a half, you don't need Doffs for anything.

If you don't use the doff system that much and don't see the benefit of using blue or purple doffs to effect the chance of assignment success and crit rates, why are you even here discussing this, you have no interest in it, nor are you using the doff system the way it was meant to be used, I.e. to improve your ships duty offers to complete assignments. That is it's sole purpose. The sole propose of the doff system is to increase the number of purple doffs you have and your success.

In fact you find the doff system so uninteresting you don't even see it as by your own words 'a part of the game', again you see anyone who does see it as part of the game as being "entitled", yet if I was to tell you the foundry isn't part of the game and isn't guaranteed you'd be less happy about that as you use it (so do I by the way and I wish they'd update it). You also say nothing in the game says you need Purple or Blue doffs, but nothing in the game tells you that you don't either. Indeed the evidence of crit rate increase and success rate increase on missions pretty much tells that the more you have of Blue and Purple doffs the better the rewards.

The fact that you don't really care about improving your doffs, tells me you aren't interested in the system anyways, so why you are interested in this debate at all is beyond me.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,059
# 308
10-22-2012, 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
Actually online games are a lot like a Democracy, people stop voting and democracy ceases to exist, people stop buying the "changes" you make to a game... then you end up like SWG and City of Heroes...

The amount of time I've been playing isn't incredibly relevant as it does not take that long to understand how the doff system works and the bottlenecks that currently inhibit it. Not only that but I am not the only one, in fact I am in the majority of people who do not wish to see this change and we are the majority of people who use and understand the doff system, whereas you are in the minority. I'm not only talking about this thread which has plenty of pages and views... but also everyone on DOFFJOBS ingame.

Do you really think that anyone would be moaning if this was a reasonable change, which is what you wish to portray it as. When we all know the reality is quite different.
Ummm... actualllyyy.... yes. I've been around long enough to have seen people moan about almost every single change to the game that Cryptic has ever made. People whipped out the doom and gloom prophecies when the FIRST box ship was released. It hasn't changed much.... Same doom and gloom new reasons....

And yes I'm subscribed to DOFFJOBS, I know what people on there have said, but that being said, I know I'm not the only one who doesn't really care about this change.

Here's my mathematical breakdown of the costs incurred based on the most recent tribble data:

General recruitment- 1k every other day
Branch recruitment- free
Cultural exchanges - free
SB doff packs- no dil cost

Then you have asylums and the officer exchanges where you send a doff you don't want to Bajor or Cardassia or someplace, the costs of those haven't changed. And yeah you can get some REALLY nice doffs from sending losers to Bajor. I got one called Sodu Okygen. She's a Bajoran Purple Trader, who just happens to have a quadruple crit on several of the missions to convert extra CxP to fleet marks. You're not gonna get one of her out of the grinder. :p

compactor w>g- 500 each use
green > blue- 2500 each use
blue > purple- 5000 each use

Even the most psychotic grinders would be hard pressed to get the doffs required for the B>P compactors just from recruitment on a weekly basis.

Assuming, you do this for a month(30 days) and compact all of your whites(totally unreasonable for a variety of reasons, but this is a worst case scenario):

for a 30 day cycle of spamming recruitment as hard as you can, you get (at least) 170 commons and 15 green. These are bare minimums. CEs can give up to 3, and any of the listed doffs can be upgraded at random. But we'll use this for a base minimum.

so for Dil costs we have:
1k every other day for general recruitment > 15k dil
compacting 170 commons means using the W>G compactor 34 times
white > green compactor 500 * 34 = 17k dil
we now have 49 greens including the 15 from GR, which means using the compactor 9 times and having 4 left over, but to make the numebrs rounded I'll add an extra green
green > blue compactor 2500 * 10 = 25k dil
this gives us 10 blues
blue > purple compactor 5000 * 2 = 10k dil

Sooo... total cost: 15+17+25+10= 67k dil

not compacting drops it down to 15k which is 2 day's dil over a month.

how much can you theoretically earn in a month? 240k. 30(days) * 8k per day

so.... you have to be insane to grind all your recruited doffs like that. I mean, one month of grinding and we have 2 purples to show for it..... It wasn't a great investment of time and energy before....

Officer exchanges and asylums were always better sources of blue and purple doffs.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,926
# 309
10-22-2012, 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
Take this from somone who played the game for 6 months before discovering the compactor. The rewards made it usless. They just don't exist. If you don;t have a roster of mostly blues or purples there smply isn't any point to the system. it's a total and utter waste of tiem and server/HDD space.
And I have played the game for about 4 months before the compactor even HAPPENED, just before the anniversary. THERE IS A POINT

Quote:
A tiny handful of fleets are T4. or everyone else green doffs are about the best they can get. Given the huge FM/Dil grind this adds for Starbases working on T3 the number of adittional fleets that will hit T4 is going to drop sharply. The vast majority of the playerbase are NEVER going to have acess to Blue's and Purple's through their starbase. they just aren't large enough to complete the grind, especially with this added on top. So trying to use fleets as an argument is a teribble excuse because it's non-applicable to most.
When did I mention fleet starbases ANYWHERE in that post, especially in the part you just quoted?

Some people just don't bother with reading anymore, do they... My own fleet is only going to hit T4 science by the end of November (rough estimate) and T4 starbase by the end of December. I haven't bought any doffs except a few commons to stuff back into the station.
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Dalo Lorn
DaloLorn, StarCraft 2 Roleplayer and proud of it.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,059
# 310
10-22-2012, 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
If you don't use the doff system that much and don't see the benefit of using blue or purple doffs to effect the chance of assignment success and crit rates, why are you even here discussing this, you have no interest in it, nor are you using the doff system the way it was meant to be used, I.e. to improve your ships duty offers to complete assignments. That is it's sole purpose. The sole propose of the doff system is to increase the number of purple doffs you have and your success.

In fact you find the doff system so uninteresting you don't even see it as by your own words 'a part of the game', again you see anyone who does see it as part of the game as being "entitled", yet if I was to tell you the foundry isn't part of the game and isn't guaranteed you'd be less happy about that as you use it (so do I by the way and I wish they'd update it). You also say nothing in the game says you need Purple or Blue doffs, but nothing in the game tells you that you don't either. Indeed the evidence of crit rate increase and success rate increase on missions pretty much tells that the more you have of Blue and Purple doffs the better the rewards.

The fact that you don't really care about improving your doffs, tells me you aren't interested in the system anyways, so why you are interested in this debate at all is beyond me.
Oh, I do see doffs as "part of" the game, but just that, a small aspect of the whole. They are not the core of the game. blues and purples are useful. But you don't NEED them.

Also I do work towards upgrading my doffs, but, not as "enthusiastically" as some players. My favortie way to upgrade doffs is the Officer Exchanges. Toss in a common and maybe get a purple, usually at least a blue. What's not to like?
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
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