Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 1 The Excelsior
10-24-2012, 12:11 AM
I admit, feels like the ole Excelsior is kind of falling behind in the times, as it were. I know it's technically already very out-dated, but still...

It had the most 'teeth' of any Fed cruiser for a long time with that Lt. Cmdr tac slot. It's got a fully functioning Transwarp drive, is quite maneuverable for a Fed cruiser, and so on.

To me, it's always been my favorite Star Trek ship (Negh'var has always been my favorite Klingon ship), it was the first C-store ship I ever bought, and used it for a long time before I moved onto other ships.

I doubt we'll ever see a fleet version (shame really), but I do hope to see at least one thing happen hopefully in season 7 from the ole Excelsior:

The Transwarp will take us to the new sector block.

I think that's pretty fair to be honest. I dunno, we fly an Excelsior for various reasons, and a big bonus of it is that you can Transwarp anywhere, and much more often if you use an Astrometrics DOFF and/or the Transwarp computer.

I know there's so many more ships, but seeing all these Advanced Quantum Slipstreams and such flying around, all the new Transwarp options people have, I just felt like giving this old ship a bit of a small upgrade to keep up a bit, wouldn't be over doing it.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 712
# 2
10-24-2012, 03:15 AM
It would also be nice to be able to transwarp to the Deferi sectors, and maybe even Gamma Orionis and Pelia. It seems odd that I can transwarp all over the quadrant, except to those places.

This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 3
10-24-2012, 03:44 AM
The Excelsior now fits in better than before. It is quite frankly the most maneuverable of all the Federation end-game cruisers by a fairly significant margin, and the Lt. Cmdr tactical slot is still quite powerful.

It seems to fit in a spot between the Assault Cruiser classic and the Assault Cruiser refit on the spectrum of tank cruiser to battle cruiser, and it's arguably better qualified to mount cannons than anything except for MAYBE the AC-R and the Odyssey with saucer sep, and the last two have some major caveats that the Excelsior doesn't due to the maneuverability issues.

It's also the only choice for a RA tactical-heavy cruiser for the Feds, as, unlike the AC-R, it can be obtained at level 40.

Unfortunately the engineering ensign is still pretty useless, though.

Last edited by red01999; 10-24-2012 at 03:46 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,825
# 4
10-24-2012, 06:53 AM
It's still way too powerful, for a hundred years old ship. (Giving it more firepower/offensive power than a Galaxy Class is a personal insult IMHO.)

I always deeply hated that ship since 1984 when i first saw it in ST: III. It's ugly, misshaped and completely bad proportioned. It's Engineering hull is way too Bulky, its Saucer is much too small and the nacelles are totally oversized.
I have no idea what Leaonard Nimoy has been smoking when choosing that ship.

I personally hate that the devs made that ugly bucket this powerful compared to other ships, especially compared to the Galaxy Class. It should have been a CMDR level Cruiser, but never a T5 ship. The devs instead should have given the "heavy cruiser" the BOFF & Console Layout of the T5 Excelsior.


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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,240
# 5
10-24-2012, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
It's still way too powerful, for a hundred years old ship. (Giving it more firepower/offensive power than a Galaxy Class is a personal insult IMHO.)
Oh come on! It's more mobile than the Galaxy class in the real Trek universe and it would therefore be more powerful as it has more phaser banks and has the mobility to use them all which more than makes up for that disproportional saucer mounted thing the Galaxy has (don't get me wrong, the Galaxy is a good ship but that should automatically make it out-match anything in existence)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
I always deeply hated that ship since 1984 when i first saw it in ST: III. It's ugly, misshaped and completely bad proportioned. It's Engineering hull is way too Bulky, its Saucer is much too small and the nacelles are totally oversized.
I have no idea what Leaonard Nimoy has been smoking when choosing that ship.
Considering it has 24 decks it's not that bulky, I agree the saucer could be a little bigger but I do like the nacelles but that's just a matter of opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
I personally hate that the devs made that ugly bucket this powerful compared to other ships, especially compared to the Galaxy Class. It should have been a CMDR level Cruiser, but never a T5 ship. The devs instead should have given the "heavy cruiser" the BOFF & Console Layout of the T5 Excelsior.
Wanna try my engineer on in 1 on 1 PvP in their T3 Excel? The difference in offensive power between T3 and T5 versions of the ship are barely noticeable the difference is in the defensive capacity but I can do Elite STFs in the T3 version and tank stuff successfully, I think that the third tac console should be more noticeable but I did an entire thread on the subject which established the consoles are misleading, as for the Excelsior not being allowed a T5 version (in your opinion) you would take offence if I then said that the Galaxy shouldn't either. Sometimes the price of flying your favourite ship is that you aren't the most powerful thing on the block... that's something all us cruiser players have to live with.

With regards to there being no fleet version, If one were to come into existence I would get it as soon as my fleet had the facilities to make one, please can I have one Cryptic?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,351
# 6
10-24-2012, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
[font="Verdana"][color="SandyBrown"]It's still way too powerful, for a hundred years old ship. (Giving it more firepower/offensive power than a Galaxy Class is a personal insult IMHO.)
Why would you take it as a personal insult? Its not like Cryptic sat in the meeting room thinking, "You know what would reall crank Yreodred? Make the Galaxy a slow moving brick with less than average firepower!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
I always deeply hated that ship since 1984 when i first saw it in ST: III. It's ugly, misshaped and completely bad proportioned. It's Engineering hull is way too Bulky, its Saucer is much too small and the nacelles are totally oversized.
I have no idea what Leaonard Nimoy has been smoking when choosing that ship.
I respect your opinion on the Excel's design, but other people do like the look of the ship.

I think they wanted to get away from the Constitution based ships such as the Reliant/Miranda (Avenger for those of us who remember the classification in the mid 80's).

Because of the advancement of Japanese design at the time the movie was made, they tried to create a starship design in a more "Japanese-like" fashion. I think that they did a good job in that aspect and like the look of the ship. I actually don't know too many people who hate the look of the ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
I personally hate that the devs made that ugly bucket this powerful compared to other ships, especially compared to the Galaxy Class. It should have been a CMDR level Cruiser, but never a T5 ship. The devs instead should have given the "heavy cruiser" the BOFF & Console Layout of the T5 Excelsior.
Lets look at the reality of it, the T5 Excel' at least gave a Fed Cruiser that layout and help make cruisers more palatable to more aggressive cruiser players. Personally it made the PvP zone much more enjoyable for me than the T5 Assault Cruiser did and allowed me to support my escort flying fleet-mates at the same time. Instead of downing the ship, can you agree with me that it at least did that?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 7
10-24-2012, 09:58 AM
Excelsiors were still widely in use as late as the Dominion war. It may be the most successful design Starfleet has ever adopted. Sturdier and more versatile than Constitutions and Mirandas ever were. It stands to reason that they might not only continue refitting existing spaceframes with the latest tech, but possibly continue new construction on them. Excelsiors are the work horse of Starfleet.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 8
10-24-2012, 10:45 AM
It's important to note that the T3 version is the 'classic' Excelsior design, while the T5 is a complete retrofit of the original (which was capable enough to be Starfleet's standard line cruiser in TNG timeline) with modern systems and up-to-date systems that equal any on the ships being built in the shipyards. Indeed, the T5 is a newly built ship that uses the classic Lakota/Enterprise-B design for layout and hull to hold the systems all modern ships use.

In that light, it is not at all surprising or unfitting the T5 version would exceed the classic Galaxy-class, and equal the Dreadnaught refit of that class. The ship was ahead of its time when it was sent off the slipways, and built as much a warship as exploration ship (the Federation was facing the real possibility of war with the Klingon Empire, unlike when the Galaxy-class were laid down). That the class remains the only one in the galaxy capable of utilizing the full transwarp drive system says volumes about how unique it remains in design and flexibility.

However, all that said, the fact is that the ship remains a very limited-production ship. The Assault Cruiser pretty much replaced the Excelsior in tactical missions while using standard systems, while the Exploration class filled in as the workhorse of the fleet. This is illustrated by the availability of these classes to all commanders, with upgraded versions available, while no Excelsior is brought into service without alot of resources (those transwarp engines are not cheap, nor in general supply). Also, many commanders and engineers don't like the different construction philosophies of the ship, and so they will always be looked at as odd birds in the fleet. Useful as fast-reaction ships and very capable cruisers, but not favored by Admirals who like all of the ships in their fleet to use the same spare parts and familiar capabilities.

If you don't like the role-play reasons why the T5 Excelsior was more capable than the Galaxy, then from a game perspective, the devs decided they needed one cruiser with unique capabilities for combat, and the Galaxy was already established as a very large ship with an emphasis on tanking (Galaxy standard) or upgraded for PVP (the Dreadnaught) or PVE (Galaxy-Refit). Giving the Excelsior the better manueverability filled that niche in the combat spectrum until the AC-R came in. That players considered agility superior to firepower or tanking in the game is what the Devs didn't consider when making it a sub-VA ship, and if the crew system worked as advertised, the Galaxy class(es) would have been much more competative in comparison.

Ultimately, everyone has their own opinions. A Galaxy-R or Galaxy-DN can stand in any PVE fight an Excelsior can, and each has combat abilities that the Excelsior lacks. The value of those abilities is subjective, but that they do give advantages are not debatable.
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# 9
10-24-2012, 10:12 PM
I'm glad that some others also like the Excelsior as I do. I had a thought, if they made a Fleet Excelsior (and this might tick off a lot of people), but...

Why not give it those wanted Transwarps? I mean, the fleet ships are 'built to the highest standard', so wouldn't it also apply to the Transwarp Drive itself?

I know that would probably make a bunch of people mad, though it would make logical sense if that happened.

Still, having the extra transwarps would be so nice, because I don't think that list has ever been updated to go to other areas. I'd personally even be ok with them not changing that Ensign engineer if we got a fleet version.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 10
10-25-2012, 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
Wanna try my engineer on in 1 on 1 PvP in their T3 Excel...
DON'T DO IT!!! You guys will be shooting at each other for 20 minutes and nobody will win (speaking from personal experience).


If you want my response to the topic, skip the next paragraph.

Anyways, back on topic. I personally rather dislike the excelsior design. In completely honesty I dislike the design of most federation ships. I mean, seriously? A SAUCER??? I don't see ANY reason for that particular design. At all. To speak of. And having the nacelles out on pylons? Something that critical sticking out on those little spindly things (even on your vaunted galaxy those things were skinny as hell)?? It's like saying: Here's our primary power matrix unit, just shoot a few times and blow it off. Cuz you schelak the nacelles of a ship, suddenly their engines are crippled. In one fell swoop. Fed ships functionally speaking, terrible designs. Except for the Defiant. THAT little ship was excellently designed. Small, compact, no unnecessary crap on it. Actually now that I think about it, it's probably the only federation design that doesn't make me cringe when I think about functionality (course this is the same mind that cringes when he sees anything that doesn't have it's main command center buried deep inside the center of the ship behind layers of armor and decks... probably why covenant cruisers from halo are my fave design as functionality goes).

That little rant aside, the excelsior in game is a nice little ship. Yes. Little. But it performs well and can hold it's own with ships of the same class multiple tiers above it (again speaking from personal experience). If they make a fleet version though, I fear you will not see any cruisers out there other than Fleet Excelsiors and Odysseys (and Galors just cuz they are that awesome). That aside, I would support the idea of a fleet excel. Even the two existing excels are excellent ships. =P
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