Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,104
# 481
10-24-2012, 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
That is a valid point and one that I've already talked to the designers about. We may remove the 2x Dilithium for Gold and just give everyone 960 Dilithium.

It is also worth mentioning, the reason why I'm still on this thread is because all of the feedback in this thread is being shared with the designers and the team. When good points and valid concerns are brought up, I'm taking those concerns to the designers and we're discussing it.

That is one of the purposes of this thread - to get immediate feedback as we are implementing the system. Nothing is set in stone in an MMO an we can always adjust. None of this is even live yet, but we do ask that you give it a fair shake once ALL of Season 7 is up on Tribble and we have the Test Weekend. Then you can see how all the economies are updated and make a more valid assessment.

We will then adjust more from there.
Tribble test prize ....a Tribble with pointed ears PLEASE!!!


Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 482
10-24-2012, 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
That is a valid point and one that I've already talked to the designers about. We may remove the 2x Dilithium for Gold and just give everyone 960 Dilithium.
Another thing to consider is that unless you folks change something, ranking is damage based. That hamstrings cruiser captains and science vessel captains might as well not even try.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 483
10-24-2012, 06:40 PM
Dstahl -

First, I would like to thank you for taking the time to speak with us. I have managed in a position not unlike yours (not professionally, on a volunteer basis) and I know sometimes it is very difficult to make people happy.

However, I would like you to seriously reconsider the charges that are being placed on the DOff system. If these charges are in fact being imposed on you by higher management, I would ask them to seriously consider cutting these charge increases by a considerable margin.

The simple fact of the matter is that, while I recall reading in Forbes that it was expected that Cryptic would make a lot off of Starbases, Starbases are extremely difficult to put together, and the choke point seems to be DOffs. DOffs that are random and require a lot of grinding to buy. In my main character's fleet I don't know that we'll be getting past T3. I imagine many fleets are in far worse shape than that. While I realize you need to incorporate microtransactions somehow, this, combined with the embassies and the reputation system, are going to require people to make very, very difficult choices. And chances are these choices will not be in favor of the Starbases. The increased difficulty will encourage people to have less and less interest in them. While the absolute dilithium costs may go down, the costs in terms of getting those DOffs will probably go up overall, and this will not go unnoticed, particularly since it will be incorporating the "slot machine" effect so many people hate about the lockboxes.

In short, the way things are going now with DOffs is not going to benefit anyone for the long-term, IMO. Please consider this, especially with the massive threads on it on the Tribble forum, the largest of which has been going on for probably over a week by now and with absolutely no direct developer response.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 484
10-24-2012, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcsww View Post
I find it funny to read Dan's posts defending the new system as a guaranteed way to get the STF stuff people want. My question is... Why couldn't you have just added something like, trade in 50 Proto Salvage for a Proto Tech requisition? It's simple, it would of taken about a half hour for your team t implement, and everyone would be happier. But no! You need to design some ridiculous epic grind around a system and call it "content" when it's just another boring money sink!
As you say that wouldn't generate revenue.

It's 2:00 Am here I have work tomorrow and this is important enough for me to still be awake.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 185
# 485
10-24-2012, 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
They clearly require more profit, and the current Lockbox is not that popular, I think we are seeing lockbox fatigue, so new areas of exploit must be opened up.
This is so far from the truth that it actually made me laugh. While any business could always use more profit, it has little to nothing to do with Season 7 STF changes.

The Dilithium exchange counts for such a small part of our business that adding more to this does not have any significant change on our bottom line when compared to other promotions such as the Lifetime sale or 15% Zen Sales.

While I went into an explaination of our view on Dilithium earlier in the thread, the gist of it is that Dilithium is designed to benefit players who have time to play but don't have that much money. The amount of Dilithium needed across the game is determined by the player's desire for rewards and no one ever has to spend any money on Dilithium - period. Everyone can refine Dilithium every day.

By putting in both more ways to earn and more ways to spend Dilithium, it greatly benefits the players who have lots of time to spend in the game by making Dilithium valuable. When Dilithium has value, it allows players who spend the time to play and refine it the ability to sell it to players who would rather not spend the time to do it. Dilithium trade is a convenience transaction between players. One player is giving their Zen to another in exchange for Dilithium. No one ever needs to do this. You can level up the Fleet Holdings and Reputation Systems simply by playing the game and refining your Dilithium.

If you are spending money on Dilithium, it is because it is a convenience for you. You are trading the time you could have spent to earn it for some Zen. Cryptic benefits from this because as a Free to Play game, it allows players who don't have money - our free players - the ability to gain some Zen by trading the time they spent playing to someone who didn't want to take the time.

So all this talk of "increasing profits because we are in trouble" is absolutely not true. Profits are just fine without Dilithium because of Subscribers, Lifetimers, and players who purchase items in the Store.

If you want to see more detailed information on this, I may be giving a talk about how Dilithium helps to fight "pay to win" F2P games at GDC in 2013 by offering players the chance to trade their time to another player in order to get all the goodies in the Store.

And as mentioned above, all of this is the announcement. We still have several weeks on Tribble before this goes live and we are gathering feedback and will adjust as we feel necessary.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 91
# 486
10-24-2012, 06:45 PM
ok I have a problem with your post here Dstahl

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=353

in it you say

Quote:
Into the Hive
Face off against the Borg Queen's forces in this space and ground STF to earn Omega and Fleet marks.
when Branflakes clearly stated in the dev blog that Into the Hive was a GROUND stf only.

so which one is right.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 989
# 487
10-24-2012, 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
This is so far from the truth that it actually made me laugh. While any business could always use more profit, it has little to nothing to do with Season 7 STF changes.

The Dilithium exchange counts for such a small part of our business that adding more to this does not have any significant change on our bottom line when compared to other promotions such as the Lifetime sale or 15% Zen Sales.

While I went into an explaination of our view on Dilithium earlier in the thread, the gist of it is that Dilithium is designed to benefit players who have time to play but don't have that much money. The amount of Dilithium needed across the game is determined by the player's desire for rewards and no one ever has to spend any money on Dilithium - period. Everyone can refine Dilithium every day.

By putting in both more ways to earn and more ways to spend Dilithium, it greatly benefits the players who have lots of time to spend in the game by making Dilithium valuable. When Dilithium has value, it allows players who spend the time to play and refine it the ability to sell it to players who would rather not spend the time to do it. Dilithium trade is a convenience transaction between players. One player is giving their Zen to another in exchange for Dilithium. No one ever needs to do this. You can level up the Fleet Holdings and Reputation Systems simply by playing the game and refining your Dilithium.

If you are spending money on Dilithium, it is because it is a convenience for you. You are trading the time you could have spent to earn it for some Zen. Cryptic benefits from this because as a Free to Play game, it allows players who don't have money - our free players - the ability to gain some Zen by trading the time they spent playing to someone who didn't want to take the time.

So all this talk of "increasing profits because we are in trouble" is absolutely not true. Profits are just fine without Dilithium because of Subscribers, Lifetimers, and players who purchase items in the Store.

If you want to see more detailed information on this, I may be giving a talk about how Dilithium helps to fight "pay to win" F2P games at GDC in 2013 by offering players the chance to trade their time to another player in order to get all the goodies in the Store.

And as mentioned above, all of this is the announcement. We still have several weeks on Tribble before this goes live and we are gathering feedback and will adjust as we feel necessary.
So given everything you lay out here, what is the rationale behind halving dilithium rewards for STFs yet adding a dilithium cost to the sets where one didn't exist before? Why is there a dilithium cost being tacked onto the the DOFF exchange? We're also getting another dilithium sink in the embassy system. All of these new ways to spend dilithium, but still only 8k a day assuming you hit the cap all the time.

From the outside looking in, I see less dilithium on hand (requiring more time invested) and more sinks. It looks and sounds like currency manipulation.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 967
# 488
10-24-2012, 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
If you are spending money on Dilithium, it is because it is a convenience for you. You are trading the time you could have spent to earn it for some Zen. Cryptic benefits from this because as a Free to Play game, it allows players who don't have money - our free players - the ability to gain some Zen by trading the time they spent playing to someone who didn't want to take the time.
Real money should always be more valuable than artificial currency. As a result of your dilithium exchange, the price of dilithium outweighs the price of zen (something that can be bought with real money).

Its a faulty system.

$1 = 1 zen = 158 pieces of dilithium.

Last edited by linyive; 10-24-2012 at 06:50 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,668
# 489
10-24-2012, 06:48 PM
I am somewhat concerned with the decrease in dil rewards for STFs. But, It's a relatively minor issue.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 490
10-24-2012, 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
This is so far from the truth that it actually made me laugh. While any business could always use more profit, it has little to nothing to do with Season 7 STF changes.

The Dilithium exchange counts for such a small part of our business that adding more to this does not have any significant change on our bottom line when compared to other promotions such as the Lifetime sale or 15% Zen Sales.

While I went into an explaination of our view on Dilithium earlier in the thread, the gist of it is that Dilithium is designed to benefit players who have time to play but don't have that much money. The amount of Dilithium needed across the game is determined by the player's desire for rewards and no one ever has to spend any money on Dilithium - period. Everyone can refine Dilithium every day.

By putting in both more ways to earn and more ways to spend Dilithium, it greatly benefits the players who have lots of time to spend in the game by making Dilithium valuable. When Dilithium has value, it allows players who spend the time to play and refine it the ability to sell it to players who would rather not spend the time to do it. Dilithium trade is a convenience transaction between players. One player is giving their Zen to another in exchange for Dilithium. No one ever needs to do this. You can level up the Fleet Holdings and Reputation Systems simply by playing the game and refining your Dilithium.

If you are spending money on Dilithium, it is because it is a convenience for you. You are trading the time you could have spent to earn it for some Zen. Cryptic benefits from this because as a Free to Play game, it allows players who don't have money - our free players - the ability to gain some Zen by trading the time they spent playing to someone who didn't want to take the time.

So all this talk of "increasing profits because we are in trouble" is absolutely not true. Profits are just fine without Dilithium because of Subscribers, Lifetimers, and players who purchase items in the Store.

If you want to see more detailed information on this, I may be giving a talk about how Dilithium helps to fight "pay to win" F2P games at GDC in 2013 by offering players the chance to trade their time to another player in order to get all the goodies in the Store.

And as mentioned above, all of this is the announcement. We still have several weeks on Tribble before this goes live and we are gathering feedback and will adjust as we feel necessary.
That being the case why are you introducing Dilithium sinks at all in the game? there is no need for them in STF's or on the Doff grinder.

I don't doubt what you say, I merely don't understand why you would introduce Dilithium costs to STF's. When as you have just stated yourself Dilithiums' main purpose is to allow players to access content on the C-Store in order to curb the issue of Pay -2- Win is that not what your talk is about.

So surely inputting these Dilithium sinks into the STF's and Doff grinders would actually inhibit people from using Dilithium to buy items from the C-Store?

I mean the calculations for 8 Weapons + OMEGA Space set is around 450k Dilithium...

With an 8k a day refinement cap on top I really don't understand the logic based on your own interpretation of what Dilithium is for in the main.
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