Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 131
10-24-2012, 09:52 AM
Not sure why the thread I started in PvP forum was moved here?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 132
10-24-2012, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
I use those shields on a variety of ships w/differing builds, and w/both Sci and Tac Captains. So much for 1 niche ...
You're still one just one player - you're completely welcome to your opinion on the Omega shield proc and I'm willing to hear you out on it.

Ultimately though I think, and I believe many others would agree, that the Omega Shield Proc is in third place - with MACO being the best proc and KHG coming in second.

One thing to keep in mind about MACO, while under fire (which is the same requirement as Omega's shield) you're looking at an additional 10 power to engines and any speed/turn rate advantages (which is a variable) that come with it.

Generally speaking you could be looking at 1 to 3 degrees of added turn rate.



Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Not sure why the thread I started in PvP forum was moved here?
Me neither.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 133
10-24-2012, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
You're still one just one player - you're completely welcome to your opinion on the Omega shield proc and I'm willing to hear you out on it.

Ultimately though I think, and I believe many others would agree, that the Omega Shield Proc is in third place - with MACO being the best proc and KHG coming in second.

One thing to keep in mind about MACO, while under fire (which is the same requirement as Omega's shield) you're looking at an additional 10 power to engines and any speed/turn rate advantages (which is a variable) that come with it.

Generally speaking you could be looking at 1 to 3 degrees of added turn rate.





Me neither.
There's also an inertia factor which helps reduce the powersliding effect on cruisers carriers etc.

Also, the Omega shields have much higher regen than the KHG. The buffer only ends up being good if you have ways of quickly refilling it that aren't dependant on the regen. In other words higher regen shields are better than cap for protracted fights and even hit and run so you can more quickly recover and re-engage.

There are a lot of ways to keep the power level of engines up where the MACO +10 power isn't as helpful as the proc when you're already got high engine power levels.

For example, if you're in PvP and withdrawing from a high dps ff situation you put full power to engines and or use an engine batt, you'll be at max engine power the Omega proc boosts it even further. You may not even need to evasives and are able to quickly turn and fight again when the enemy stop chasing and picks a new target.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 62
# 134
10-24-2012, 12:27 PM
My opinion is, and always has been, that making the 3 pc set bonus a power is a flawed concept and needs to be reworked. Although they're useful for some builds, for most people they're very conditional and not worth the investment.

The 3 pc MACO, for example, could easily be replaced by equipping the Magnetometric Generator console from the Koro't'inga or a lock box, the Borg tractor beam may drain power but it's cooldown is magnitudes longer then the T1 tractor beam power. Neither is worth equipping a full set for.

I'd like to see the sets rebalanced and a proper 3 pc passive set bonus added. Something that people would be excited to work towards. The abilities could be added to an 'Optional' console for each set, something that keeps the theme but is totally optional. Lets face it, they're just glorified console abilities anyways, lets place them where they belong.

The only time I've ever seen the set abilities in action was when they had an effect on the outcome of STFs - Tractoring Denatra (before she was immune) and Pulsing the Generators (before THEY were immune).

Without this purpose, the abilities are completely lackluster. Granted, with a MASSIVE change to their cool down (like 50%) or magnitude they may be more attractive, but even then I doubt they'll be popular.

Last edited by wackywombat; 10-24-2012 at 12:31 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 135
10-24-2012, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
There's also an inertia factor which helps reduce the powersliding effect on cruisers carriers etc.
That's true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Also, the Omega shields have much higher regen than the KHG. The buffer only ends up being good if you have ways of quickly refilling it that aren't dependant on the regen. In other words higher regen shields are better than cap for protracted fights and even hit and run so you can more quickly recover and re-engage.
Well, I don't think the question is purely one of Cap vs. Regen.

The KHG proc, I find at least, is pretty interesting in what could be a considered a regen buffer in that it creates as it forces the shooter to require the target.

I'll admit that's hard to quantify and would require some pretty dedicated testing to come to any kind of clear statement on one vs. the other.


Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
There are a lot of ways to keep the power level of engines up where the MACO +10 power isn't as helpful as the proc when you're already got high engine power levels.
I'll test and get back to this at some point, I'm pretty sure even running 75/80 engine power, adding another 10 on top of that will result in at least a degree or two of turn rate.

The major benefit is that +10 power is not just to engines, it's also to Shields (and every subsystem for that matter) - which means unless you have Shields maxed out MACO will be able to close the regen gap a bit (not all the way) while simultaneously adding more resistance to it's already higher resistance value.

That, and also being Resilient, are why I tend to consider the MACO shield the best available, and KHG in second for survivability.

Omega's proc possibly gives enough extra maneuverability to an already nimble Escort to help keep out of DHC arcs, but I'm not confident that could be said for slower ships.



While this is interesting, I'm going to try and stick to the main point of this thread which is that the MACO / KHG / Omega set bonuses/powers are what is at half of the equation in why the borg procs were so valued (the other half being the sheer power of the borg set procs).

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 136
10-24-2012, 06:35 PM
@Borticus,


Bort, is it intended that the KHG engine only give their power bonuses depending on how much power you currently have in any particular subsystem?

Meaning, the more power you have in that subsystem the less power you actually receive.

This means if you have 100 weapons power, the KHG engine grants 0 power to your ship.


Considering how small these power bonuses are, in the grand scheme of things, is this actually necessary?


This seems exceptionally weak imo.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 10-25-2012 at 11:09 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 438
# 137
10-25-2012, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Not sure why the thread I started in PvP forum was moved here?
Well don't ask too many questions. I saw this was moved and started a thread asking why they keep moving them and got a insta-fraction. It was down in a 2-3 minutes and I got a warning not to talk on the forums about how they're moderated. They seemed to take it way more serious than the death threats against me that I reported last week.

Last edited by falloutx23; 10-25-2012 at 10:40 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 138
10-26-2012, 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
I'll test and get back to this at some point, I'm pretty sure even running 75/80 engine power, adding another 10 on top of that will result in at least a degree or two of turn rate.
Yes, turn rate is affected by engine power. But, you also have to consider that you're getting a speed boost as well.

So, any increase in turn rate is going to be counteracted by the increase in speed. You may turn faster, but the increased speed will also increasing the arc of your turn.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 139
10-26-2012, 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
You're right, I've been eyeing the 3xturn, speed hyper engines and forgot about the 3xspeed turn hyper engines. Also, I've been thinking of waiting to see what the elite specs look like. Still, as far as set engines go there isn't one that's faster.
Even still, the Fleet hyper-impulse engines [turn]x3 [spd] is slightly faster than the MK XI Omega engines (probably the same for mk XII).

About .5 impulse more, if I recall. But, that might be because I'm comparing a MK XI Omega engine versus a MK XII Fleet engine, and the MK XII may get a bonus.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 140
10-26-2012, 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Yes, turn rate is affected by engine power. But, you also have to consider that you're getting a speed boost as well.

So, any increase in turn rate is going to be counteracted by the increase in speed. You may turn faster, but the increased speed will also increasing the arc of your turn.
I still don't think that puts Omega any better than third place vs. MACO & KHG shields.

The only thing the Omega shield really has going for it overall, is that the Omega set bonuses are decent - even if I think Grav Anchor either has too long of a cooldown or too short of a duration to justify bothering with all 3.

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