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Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 41
10-25-2012, 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paragon92518 View Post
misskorya, this is for you. One of the nicest looking images of the Niagara I've been able to find online.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1...NG_NIAGARA.jpg

but...

this one looks pretty good too: http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs51/f/20...freak74656.jpg
Wow, that actually is a somewhat pretty ship.
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# 42
10-26-2012, 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misskorya View Post
Oh how I do love Memory-Beta.

She was large yes, but she was fast.

Memory Beta's Niagara Class
The Price of Freedom, RPG by Last Unicorn Games

And somewhere a friend of mine has the PDF of this book, which lists a little more detail on the Niagara herself. She did make use of all three nacelles, thus making her that little fast cruiser. I can certainly see where her dead weight might come into play.

But as Data once put it, "fully functional."

That is the Niagara with all three of her Nacelles. It was that exact third nacelle that gave her, her energy boost. This was of course with a cost.

Edit: Nevermind, my friend deleted said book u.u and yeah... T_T

This is all I have, the Memory Beta.
No need to give up so quickly

http://ebookbrowse.com/ship-recognit...pdf-d255804033

If we take this as a proper soft-canon source, we still end up with a clear explanation for the term "Fast Cruiser": her FTL speed, not impulse.
According to this PDF her distinct advantage over the Istanbul class is her higher maximum speed of Warp 9.6 as opposed to the Istanbul's 9.5 and the Ambassador's 9.2.

So I'm afraid my estimation that she'd not be particularly fast at impulse (which is of course only my estimation based on my observation of how the ship is structured) is at least not refuted.
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Posts: 64
# 43
10-26-2012, 08:55 AM
Ah okay, then. Well at least someone found it.

Oh I see now. I stand corrected.

Her secondary impulse engine was intended for [at least on soft canon], for emergency power/extra power to which I assume would go to Auxiliary Systems, if this is implemented in game?

She is less armed and is more or less suited to diplomatic missions, which would then perhaps in-game since we're throwing around titles. Classify her as a 'Diplomatic Cruiser.'

Perhaps gaining some boosts to Diplomatic XP?
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# 44
10-26-2012, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misskorya View Post
Ah okay, then. Well at least someone found it.

Oh I see now. I stand corrected.

Her secondary impulse engine was intended for [at least on soft canon], for emergency power/extra power to which I assume would go to Auxiliary Systems, if this is implemented in game?

She is less armed and is more or less suited to diplomatic missions, which would then perhaps in-game since we're throwing around titles. Classify her as a 'Diplomatic Cruiser.'

Perhaps gaining some boosts to Diplomatic XP?
There's not really a ton of official canon information about the Niagara, so the Devs would probably have a well portioned amount of leeway when designing it. And that's a good thing. However it is made, it would give players 1 more ship choice. A destroyer would be nice. Since the Ambassador is already on the way, anything but a Cruiser would probably be a nice addition to the game.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/dofftrader/yoreantiques/DOFFtrader.gif
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# 45
10-26-2012, 05:41 PM
Indeed, though I take into consideration that the New Orleans would fulfill that 'destroyer' role. Springfield would correspond with Science, leaving the Niagara to a Cruiser status.

Though having the Niagara regardless of her status as a vessel of her own, would be nice.
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# 46
10-27-2012, 03:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misskorya View Post
Ah okay, then. Well at least someone found it.

Oh I see now. I stand corrected.

Her secondary impulse engine was intended for [at least on soft canon], for emergency power/extra power to which I assume would go to Auxiliary Systems, if this is implemented in game?

She is less armed and is more or less suited to diplomatic missions, which would then perhaps in-game since we're throwing around titles. Classify her as a 'Diplomatic Cruiser.'

Perhaps gaining some boosts to Diplomatic XP?
I've desperately tried to figure out the thing with the secondary impulse engines myself.
However to me the locations don't actually fit the ship.

The first set is supposedly located in "Saucer Aft Port and Starboard" and is "Class 8"
while the second is in "Engineering Aft", "Class 5".
I've compared that to the Ambassador in the PDF.

The Ambassador has only one set "Engineering Aft", "Class 5".
So my guess is that's the impulse engine engine in the neck.
There are however no additional visible impulse engines on the Niagara except the one it has "inherited" from the Ambassador.

My best guess at this point is this:
When the book was made, the authors assumed the Niagara was using a Galaxy-style saucer along with the impulse engines, either a fullsize version or a scaled-down model like the Cheyenne.
This would also fit the discription of the Cheyenne impulse engines that are described as "saucer aft".

Unfortunately this is not reflected in the most recently released images of the Niagara model used in "Best of Both Worlds".

There are however some additional options open (in theory).
Why not make the Niagara a Science-Cruiser Hybrid in a different sense than the Nebula?
Armament 4/3 with no Sensor Analysis but a higher amount of power overall.
This would fit the reduced armament compared to to other ships of her size while giving her an ende in other ways.
I'm thinking somehting like
+5 to Weapons and Engines
+10 to Shields and Aux

This way she'd be more of a "Combat Support Cruiser" in function, even though she can easily still be called a "Diplomatic Cruiser" as a class.
The added power bonus could be explained by the fact that the larger saucer contains additional power generators that are used to boost denfenses and provide additional amenities important dignitaries (the latter out fo combat of course).
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# 47
10-27-2012, 10:27 AM
I can see that yes, and would this be in addition to the said ability you mentioned earlier? Or in-part of the hybrid would that ability go to console? I don't want to over power the Niagara because she's not going to outpace any of the bigger guns in games, by any means but she would have her advantages certainly.

I would propose that she'd be added as a "Fleet" vessel as well, seeing how her cousin the Cheyenne is listed in as a "Fleet" version. I am certainly aiming to grab the Cheyenne as a "Fleet" since I never grabbed her while leveilng my main.
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# 48
10-27-2012, 12:11 PM
its hard to classify ships like this , since so little has been released about them , but from an STO perspective , i could see this being a dreadnought-lite
not as powerful as the refitted galaxy , but with a better turn to compensate , thats just my take on it however
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# 49
10-27-2012, 05:11 PM
I personally have always loved the Niagara class ship and have wished to see it added to the game. Personally I would like to see it added as a Refit class with both the original and an updated 2409 look to it. However as many of you have stated; what type of ship is it?

To that I say lets take a look back at history and see what historical fast cruisers were intended to do.

In the 1890's before the first dreadnaughts the armored cruiser was becoming the standard in line of battle doctrine. These cruisers were however inefficient and could not travel far from coaling stations. To empires and aspiring empires this was inconvenient to say the least. For that reason a sub class of cruiser was created. These ships fit between the light and heavy cruiser classes and were known as Fast Armored Cruisers.

Now the name is misleading as these cruisers weren't especially fast. In fact most could be run down by their normal counterparts or early dreadnaughts. The advantage these cruisers held was range and endurance at speed, which far surpassed anything else afloat. It was cruisers such as these that came to make up the bulk of the South Atlantic and Far East fleets of many nations. So it had range, but what did it actually do?

Well from the 1890's to the early 1920's the fast armored cruiser had a few important roles. The first of course was power projection at the edges of the empire. While not as armored as her standard cousin she had the same, if not larger guns. This idea eventually morphed into the battlecruisers and pocket battleships of WWII fame. A second role of note was that these cruisers would ferry high ranking diplomats around the world. Due to their ability to go long distances at near full speed, these ships were the fastest available transportation in the days before transoceanic flight. Not to mention having a few 8in guns to back you up makes one heck of an opening statement. Lastly these ships with their ability to range far from the home shores served in the role of commerce raiders. The French affectionately nicknamed theirs Corsair Cruisers.

Now with the history lesson over, the historical uses for Fast Armored cruisers sounds similar to the limited canon available for the Niagara doesn't it? Range and endurance for scientific missions, the ability to move diplomats quickly. Sounds like things the Federation would want out of a ship. But commerce raiding... No never, not the Feds... The Orions though... Now the door is open to giving the KDF boys a new toy to play with as well. Something like http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Wanderer_class perhaps?

So how would that play out as an in game ship? I'd personally say as a more combat oriented Science ship. Maybe something like this...

Rank: Rear Admiral
Tier: 5
Hull: 29,500
Shield Modifier: 1.2
Weapons 3 fore / 3 aft
Crew: 550
Bridge Officers: Lt. Cmdr Tac, Esgn Tac, Lt. Eng, Cmdr Sci, Lt. Sci
Device Slots: 3
Consoles: 3 Tactical, 2 Engineering, 4 Science
Turn Rate: 10
Impulse Modifier: .20
Inertia Rating: 35
Bonus Power: Weapons +5, Shields 0, Engines 0, Auxiliary +10
Abilities: Subsystem Targeting, Sensor Analysis

As far as a Universal console? Maybe it times the Federation got the http://www.stowiki.org/Universal_Con...tric_Generator and the Klinks the http://www.stowiki.org/Universal_Con...Defense_System

Last edited by ducesettutamen; 10-27-2012 at 05:32 PM.
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# 50
10-27-2012, 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrincy View Post
its hard to classify ships like this , since so little has been released about them , but from an STO perspective , i could see this being a dreadnought-lite
not as powerful as the refitted galaxy , but with a better turn to compensate , thats just my take on it however
Keep in mind that the Borg Cube, which in STO is a battleship and therefore weaker than a dreadnought, trashed at least one Niagara at Wolf 359. A cruiser/escort/science vessel would be better, since they're weaker than the Borg Cube but still strong enough to hold their own most of the time.
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