Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 21
10-28-2012, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
With the current suggested set prices your looking at a 648K dil grind for all sets. Or just under 3 months at 8K a day.
Staggering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
We're reviewing the Dilithium costs associated with gear - both direct-reward projects, and the store prices. It's likely they will fall some, though we're not entirely certain by how much, just yet.
That's great Bort, thank you.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 22
10-28-2012, 07:58 PM
Quote:
Staggering.
Figured i was the only one to do the math . Main issue of course is 99% of the player base don;t see close to 8K a day so it would likliy take them over a half a year, more if their paying into an SB at the same time.

Quote:
That's great Bort, thank you.
Oh indeed, i just want them to get the sloution right and come up with a system that works for multipule set users and single set users alike as well as scaling with future updates that might well require more sets anyway.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 201
# 23
10-28-2012, 08:01 PM
Quote:
So, in a way, the MK11 MACO engine DOES cost 1056 dil.
I see this coming up a lot on the forums recently, and it's not really an accurate measurement of the value of the item.

The ability to trade in a tech drop for Dilithium is a way of giving players who get a drop they don't want or need something for the time they've spent, due to the randomness of the current system. If we had allowed people to simply purchase Omega gear with Dilithium, the cost associated with them would have been higher than Diltihium store items, since the Omega/MACO/Honor Guard gear is superior to Dilithium store gear.

Now that we're moving to a system with fewer random elements, we can price Omega items, Romulan reputation items, etc. proportionately to one another based on the relative power of the items. There are several factors to take into account in pricing these items, and we're doing our best to make the costs reasonable.

As Borticus already mentioned, we're in the process of evaluating Dilithium costs in general.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14,375
# 24
10-28-2012, 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
I see this coming up a lot on the forums recently, and it's not really an accurate measurement of the value of the item.

The ability to trade in a tech drop for Dilithium is a way of giving players who get a drop they don't want or need something for the time they've spent, due to the randomness of the current system. If we had allowed people to simply purchase Omega gear with Dilithium, the cost associated with them would have been higher than Diltihium store items, since the Omega/MACO/Honor Guard gear is superior to Dilithium store gear.

Now that we're moving to a system with fewer random elements, we can price Omega items, Romulan reputation items, etc. proportionately to one another based on the relative power of the items. There are several factors to take into account in pricing these items, and we're doing our best to make the costs reasonable.

As Borticus already mentioned, we're in the process of evaluating Dilithium costs in general.
Thanks for the clarification Archon!
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 790
# 25
10-28-2012, 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
I see this coming up a lot on the forums recently, and it's not really an accurate measurement of the value of the item.

The ability to trade in a tech drop for Dilithium is a way of giving players who get a drop they don't want or need something for the time they've spent, due to the randomness of the current system. If we had allowed people to simply purchase Omega gear with Dilithium, the cost associated with them would have been higher than Diltihium store items, since the Omega/MACO/Honor Guard gear is superior to Dilithium store gear.

Now that we're moving to a system with fewer random elements, we can price Omega items, Romulan reputation items, etc. proportionately to one another based on the relative power of the items. There are several factors to take into account in pricing these items, and we're doing our best to make the costs reasonable.

As Borticus already mentioned, we're in the process of evaluating Dilithium costs in general.
why does Dstore cost more than fleet store 10000 for 12 while 11 is 22000 huh when will that be lowered


what woulld like 3 stacks of 99 EDC get me that is just 1 toon 3 others with 2 I am ready for it
I thought we wer suposed to get c the conversion rate last week

Last edited by sean2448; 10-28-2012 at 08:38 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 26
10-28-2012, 10:05 PM
another thing is...are they EVER going to increase the dil cap from 8k per day? at that rate it would take WEEKS to MONTHS to get full sets of gear...not to mention all of the other stuff dil is used for...

I would say probably a 16k to 20k cap would be better...with gold members and LTS members getting a 25 to 30k cap increase. (because they PAY for the F2P to have fun)

since i started this game 6-7 months ago I've put down at least $150..compared to what i played before hand, *********, I only paid $80 a YEAR.

thats my $0.02

Edit: your kidding me...how the heck is a GAME a bad word???? *sigh*

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 27
10-28-2012, 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean2448 View Post
why does Dstore cost more than fleet store 10000 for 12 while 11 is 22000 huh when will that be lowered
The Dilithium store is always available at all times without any kind of entry fee or membership, I can understand why they are priced so much higher.

Fleet store requires you going to the Fleet Vendor that is located on the Starbase and buy it, there is also a cost in Fleet Marks and it have to be unlocked by going over the tiers.

I will say this, the Dilithium Store prices are fine because otherwise people will no even bother with the exchange anymore or leave wherever they are.

Last edited by f2pdrakron; 10-28-2012 at 10:52 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 734
# 28
10-28-2012, 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynder2012 View Post
another thing is...are they EVER going to increase the dil cap from 8k per day? at that rate it would take WEEKS to MONTHS to get full sets of gear...not to mention all of the other stuff dil is used for...
I remember when the dilithium system came out there was a lot of talk from the developers that made it seem like the cap was just a temporary check that would be raised, if not eliminated, once they had assured the system was stable. Well, 10 months later...
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 97
# 29
10-28-2012, 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
The Dilithium store is always available at all times without any kind of entry fee or membership, I can understand why they are priced so much higher.

Fleet store requires you going to the Fleet Vendor that is located on the Starbase and buy it, there is also a cost in Fleet Marks and it have to be unlocked by going over the tiers.

I will say this, the Dilithium Store prices are fine because otherwise people will no even bother with the exchange anymore or leave wherever they are.


I think this is, overall, something they're thinking about. There need to be things *everyone* wants to spend dilithium on, all the time. Not necessarily a lot of dilithium, but there needs to be something that every player looks at and says 'this item that costs dilithium would be an upgrade'. Right now if you can get borg gear (which everyone can) there only thing you need dilithium for is doff stuff or converting into other currencies. That conversion is only going to work if people want the thing you're selling (crafting mats for crafting that is generally not very good). The guy buying dilithium for zen needs to actually want that dilithium.

Now fleet projects and so on are interesting, because not everyone is in a fleet, so you could create an economy that way as dilithium as something fleet people want and non fleet people supply to them, but that seriously constrains the market.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,444
# 30
10-29-2012, 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
I see this coming up a lot on the forums recently, and it's not really an accurate measurement of the value of the item.

The ability to trade in a tech drop for Dilithium is a way of giving players who get a drop they don't want or need something for the time they've spent, due to the randomness of the current system. If we had allowed people to simply purchase Omega gear with Dilithium, the cost associated with them would have been higher than Diltihium store items, since the Omega/MACO/Honor Guard gear is superior to Dilithium store gear.

Now that we're moving to a system with fewer random elements, we can price Omega items, Romulan reputation items, etc. proportionately to one another based on the relative power of the items. There are several factors to take into account in pricing these items, and we're doing our best to make the costs reasonable.

As Borticus already mentioned, we're in the process of evaluating Dilithium costs in general.
Okay, let me say -- and I'm totally chill on this point, which I find requires explaining on these forums -- that I disagree with you and the other guy.

Because Cryptic designers seem to want to bend the basic laws of economics in order to support internally constructed "fair" design principles all the time anymore (and, really, players aren't mind readers so they don't know what the paradigm for fairness is supposed to be)...

And players keep constructed value equivalencies that try to treat any two things of equal work as having the same value, usually in a way that seems concerned with making everything cheap and easy (which is bad because it cheapens any need to play) or make things they already own valuable and expensive (which is also bad because it decreases the need to play).

Okay. Here's my perspective. I'm sure almost everyone reading this post studied this somewhere but here's a refresher:

Opportunity Cost
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Quote:
Note that opportunity cost is not the sum of the available alternatives when those alternatives are, in turn, mutually exclusive to each other ? it is the value of the next best use. The opportunity cost of a city's decision to build the hospital on its vacant land is the loss of the land for a sporting center, or the inability to use the land for a parking lot, or the money which could have been made from selling the land. Use for any one of those purposes would preclude the possibility to implement any of the other.
Next best. As in, for these purposes, most expensive other option. Not "not meant to be equivalent and it was a consolation prize that we determined would..." Not "cheapest other option" or "any other option that costs that amount" as so many posters here want to argue.

Next best. Singular.

So the value of any prototype tech deflector, assuming you have one, is a deflector that the player doesn't own. Until the player doesn't need deflectors. Then the value of the prototype drop is 2034 dilithium.

EXCEPT. EXCEPT that's the value if you already have one, not the value of getting one.

Because it's a drop, it can vary, yes. Half of people get it by 75 runs at 1%. So let's say 75. That's about 18 hours, 45 minutes. or a 94k-ish dilithium value. Except the person who did 75 STF runs before got 94k dilithium and the deflector. The whole thing becomes a mess when trying to value the time any way that involves dilithium because the player also received dilithium. But 20 hours of focused activity.

*sigh* My issue is that devs don't seem interested in economic equitability of different transactions (every trade in of any kind is a trade down, often massive -- including for dilithium) and players seem to want things cheap.

Everybody is distorting this economy to push their goals, both developer and player alike, and nobody is trying to simulate a fair economic system where things are reasonably costly but where the market is healthy. Because this should be a fair, balanced, simulated economic system.

Players shouldn't get ripped off on the dilithium hand-in (which they have been) nor should players be trying to game this to make everything easy. Everybody else having this discussion is acting as a participant in the economy rather than as an observer trying to construct an illustration of a fair economy. And I at least think that last role should be one that developers and a few players who can look beyond self-interest should be discussing.

This goes back to my Lobi thing. Lobi items' value should be equal to the opportunity cost of acquiring the Lobi used to purchase the item or roughly equivalent to items with a market value of 250,000 EC per Lobi spent. Because that's roughly the stable market rate for acquiring one Lobi.

There should be a power balance/cost/trade in chart somewhere that is consistent as well as an overall policy on how much, maximum, Cryptic will undervalue something on trade in for currency.
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