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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,817
# 11
10-29-2012, 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
hrm, well, the poster above me lol'd at this....i hope it was just that line....
That's why I only quoted the one line.

As for the rest, yes - it comes down to a team's synergy in exploiting the potential weakness of the opposing team to achieve victory.

There's nothing stopping Team A from also flying a Vesta or two just because Team B is flying one or more though - unless that team's KDF, of course. But that basically goes for all of the ships - you can't fly Fed ships if you're KDF and you can't fly KDF ships if you're Fed.

People are making the Vesta out to be a ROFLstomper - that it will singlehandedly beat any other ship - while the person plays with their toes and reads a book or watches TV.

Rather than consider the potential weaknesses the ship will have - looking at what combinations could be used to destroy it... they'd rather just cry about it? I mean, c'mon... how have they lasted any time at all with the way STO's PvP has been since the start?

Speculation has been all over the place in regard to how the ship will launch - some of the additive speculation has been kind of amusing. Some of them are just a weaker version of the Armitage - less hull, worse turn, DC (not DHC), Sci heavy BOFF layout, and innate Sci ship abilities.

If Sci ships were such awesome sauce... then folks would be flying RSVs instead of Escorts...

...so maybe folks should spend less time crying about it and thinking more about how to kill them - making the person that thought they were going to be uber - be the one crying, eh?

edit: And like Soph said, it's casual PvP at the end of the day. There's not even a shiny sticker for it... play it if it's fun, don't play it if it's not fun. Yes, investments of time and money can be a royal PITA when things change - welcome to MMOs - they've been doing that for the 15 years I've been playing them.

Last edited by virusdancer; 10-29-2012 at 04:29 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
# 12
10-29-2012, 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
That's why I only quoted the one line.
DC (not DHC), Sci heavy BOFF layout, and innate Sci ship abilities.
Al already said that if they let her slot Dual cannons then there is no way the system can be modified so it can't slot dual heavies.

And from what We have already been told she can slot cannons - so it's pretty much a lock that it will slot DHC

The biggest question will be her turn rate - as to how effective the cannons are.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,076
# 13
10-29-2012, 04:36 PM
hrm.

maybe this is a troll thread?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,817
# 14
10-29-2012, 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by levi3 View Post
The biggest question will be her turn rate - as to how effective the cannons are.
Probably looking at 8-9...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,671
# 15
10-29-2012, 04:44 PM
as it stands now, a GOOD sci/sci focusing on you will leave you all but helpless and defenseless, basically leaving you crippled with 75% to 100% up time. but, its unlikely they will have the firepower to actual kill you even in that state, thats what team work is for.

this vesta is going to have VASTLY enhanced movement control for absolutely free thanks to runabouts, on top of every other sci/sci trick. and then it will beat on you with its 3 DHCs, dealing near escort damage, when you are at your most vulnerable. it can do this all by itself.


i really shouldn't have to explained why this all in 1 with 0 downsides is a VERY BAD thing. and no, it will have no actual downsides, you can count on it.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,817
# 16
10-29-2012, 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
as it stands now, a GOOD sci/sci focusing on you will leave you all but helpless and defenseless, basically leaving you crippled with 75% to 100% up time. but, its unlikely they will have the firepower to actual kill you even in that state, thats what team work is for.

this vesta is going to have VASTLY enhanced movement control for absolutely free thanks to runabouts, on top of every other sci/sci trick. and then it will beat on you with its 3 DHCs, dealing near escort damage, when you are at your most vulnerable. it can do this all by itself.

i really shouldn't have to explained why this all in 1 with 0 downsides is a VERY BAD thing. and no, it will have no actual downsides, you can count on it.
The ADR - well, they're dead by the same AOE that's being carried to deal with all the fighter/drone spam from current carriers. If anything, having a single hangar - there's going to be less spam than there would be from dual hangar carriers.

As for the DHCs - you're looking at a Sci BOFF layout - not a Tac. It's being flown by a Sci - not a Tac. It's got a bonus to Aux - not Weapons. It's not going to have near the maneuverability of an Escort.

Single hangar - pet fodder - less maneuverable - lower hull - Sci heavy BOFF layout while Sci abilities are still borked - and the list goes on and on... so where are there zero downsides?

With everything you've posted in various ship build threads - I'd expect you to have pointed out how fail the Vesta is... not that it is the one ship to rule them all.

Honestly, I'm more worried about what the Andorian battlecruiser is going to be like than the Vesta. I'm picturing the evil offspring of a Fleet Negh and Fleet Vor...and then the likelihood of there being a Fleet version on top of that.

Course, then there's the Ambassador next year. I still say the Ambassador should come with an innate ability where it randomly summons in three Rom dreads to destroy it. The pro-Ambassador folks hate when I suggest that - but c'mon, that would be funny as Hell...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 374
# 17
10-29-2012, 05:13 PM
Quote:
How to avoid bitterness and disappointment about PvP in STO
Move on to something better.

The grass really is greener in this case
Fancy an exclusive, extended 21 day trial of eve online?
Sign up (heck, it's free for almost a full month, using the link) and see what you think.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,671
# 18
10-29-2012, 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
The ADR - well, they're dead by the same AOE that's being carried to deal with all the fighter/drone spam from current carriers. If anything, having a single hangar - there's going to be less spam than there would be from dual hangar carriers.

As for the DHCs - you're looking at a Sci BOFF layout - not a Tac. It's being flown by a Sci - not a Tac. It's got a bonus to Aux - not Weapons. It's not going to have near the maneuverability of an Escort.

Single hangar - pet fodder - less maneuverable - lower hull - Sci heavy BOFF layout while Sci abilities are still borked - and the list goes on and on... so where are there zero downsides?

With everything you've posted in various ship build threads - I'd expect you to have pointed out how fail the Vesta is... not that it is the one ship to rule them all.

Honestly, I'm more worried about what the Andorian battlecruiser is going to be like than the Vesta. I'm picturing the evil offspring of a Fleet Negh and Fleet Vor...and then the likelihood of there being a Fleet version on top of that.

Course, then there's the Ambassador next year. I still say the Ambassador should come with an innate ability where it randomly summons in three Rom dreads to destroy it. The pro-Ambassador folks hate when I suggest that - but c'mon, that would be funny as Hell...
if it has just a LT tac, it will have all it needs to deal significant damage with DHCs. especially if your scanned and been subnuked. having high weapons energy is easy, bonuses are usually between 5 and 15 to any one thing, a drop in the bucket.

the armatige makes a plenty large mess with 1 hanger. only 1 can tractor you at a time anyway, 1 hanger can chain tractor you as well as 2. runabouts have 20k hull and shields, they shrug off AOE, you cant kill them faster then they spawn even if you focus only on them. if you have spent any time trying to kill a sci/armatige 1v1, you would be plenty scared of the vesta's potential.

the nebula has a 9 turn rate, do you think the vesta will have less? 2 turn consoles and i can get a ship with 9 turn, the negvar, to use DHCs easily. especially with 2 or 3 different ways for me to control movement. and i can do stupid damage with just CRF1 on the big fat thing. fully tac buffed with DEM3, controlled movement, and all AP weapons i can take ships out in 1 pass, its hilarious being able to do that in the kdf's worst cruiser.


a vesta with CRF1, sensor scan, and subnuking your resistance away will be able to do the same. and you will be SS'ed and VM'ed at the same time most likly.


there are 2 potential station setups it can have in my opinion, what the karfi has, which is VERY tac heavy, and what the vet/ody has, the universal LTC and ENS. only on this ship it will have a COM sci were the oddy ahs a COM eng and vet ships have a COM tac.

if it has the karfi setup, and it turns better then the karfi's 8, the DHCs are a HUGE threat. if it has the vet/ody setup, it can have 2 AtB, GG basically.

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 10-29-2012 at 05:20 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 19
10-29-2012, 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
The ADR - well, they're dead by the same AOE that's being carried to deal with all the fighter/drone spam from current carriers. If anything, having a single hangar - there's going to be less spam than there would be from dual hangar carriers.

As for the DHCs - you're looking at a Sci BOFF layout - not a Tac. It's being flown by a Sci - not a Tac. It's got a bonus to Aux - not Weapons. It's not going to have near the maneuverability of an Escort.

Single hangar - pet fodder - less maneuverable - lower hull - Sci heavy BOFF layout while Sci abilities are still borked - and the list goes on and on... so where are there zero downsides?

With everything you've posted in various ship build threads - I'd expect you to have pointed out how fail the Vesta is... not that it is the one ship to rule them all.

Honestly, I'm more worried about what the Andorian battlecruiser is going to be like than the Vesta. I'm picturing the evil offspring of a Fleet Negh and Fleet Vor...and then the likelihood of there being a Fleet version on top of that.

Course, then there's the Ambassador next year. I still say the Ambassador should come with an innate ability where it randomly summons in three Rom dreads to destroy it. The pro-Ambassador folks hate when I suggest that - but c'mon, that would be funny as Hell...
I can't really understand where you're coming from to be honest. There's nothing preventing a Tac from flying the Vesta (although frankly I think I'd fear a Sci/Sci more), and "Sci abilities are still borked" is a massive oversimplification that gets bandied around a lot, mostly by armchair generals (have someone who knows what they're doing hit you with aux-buffed grav pulse, DOff-boosted VM/Tyken's and then tell me that Sci is weak). Weapons power is not typically a big deal if you have a good toon spec.

What dontdrunkimshoot is saying is that a proper Sci can typically cripple a player, but they aren't intended to deal the killing blow. A Vesta that can deal serious burst while your engines are perma-down is the knife in the side while you're uncloaked by CC. And again, we're not looking at Joe Schmoe's Vesta here, we're considering the people who we know are more than capable enough of bleeding the last ounce of performance out of her and pushing the mechanics to their limit.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples

Last edited by shimmerless; 10-29-2012 at 05:16 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
# 20
10-29-2012, 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
I can't really understand where you're coming from to be honest. There's nothing preventing a Tac from flying the Vesta (although frankly I think I'd fear a Sci/Sci more), and "Sci abilities are still borked" is a massive oversimplification that gets bandied around a lot, mostly by armchair generals (have someone who knows what they're doing hit you with aux-buffed grav pulse, DOff-boosted VM/Tyken's and then tell me that Sci is weak). Weapons power is not typically a big deal if you have a good toon spec.

What dontdrunkimshoot is saying is that a proper Sci can typically cripple a player, but they aren't intended to deal the killing blow. A Vesta that can deal serious burst while your engines are perma-down is the knife in the side while you're uncloaked by CC. And again, we're not looking at Joe Schmoe's Vesta here, we're considering the people who we know are more than capable enough of bleeding the last ounce of performance out of her and pushing the mechanics to their limit.
All these comments sound like KDF players complaining that their ships won't be king of PvP anymore. Are you upset that the Feds might have a equal or better ship for the first time - come on let's get to the truth.
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