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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 21
10-29-2012, 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by levi3 View Post
All these comments sound like KDF players complaining that their ships won't be king of PvP anymore. Are you upset that the Feds might have a equal or better ship for the first time - come on let's get to the truth.
Lol I was actually pumped for the Vesta and I barely log onto my KDF, I just want to fly one with a clean conscience

BTW if you think Klink ships are kings of PvP it shows how much you play.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 272
# 22
10-29-2012, 06:35 PM
4. Booze and cupcakes
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,179
# 23
10-29-2012, 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by levi3 View Post
All these comments sound like KDF players complaining that their ships won't be king of PvP anymore. Are you upset that the Feds might have a equal or better ship for the first time - come on let's get to the truth.
were are these superior kdf ships? is it the raptor? the worst escort? is it the bop, an escort with less durability and less firepower? there is a full fledged fed escort running around with all the bops best possible station setups already, and they are MUCH more durable as well. cruisers? well kdf cruisers are better at dealing damage, but when they are doing that well they arent supporting worth a damn so the kdf team never has much for team healing. sci ships? well a bop can sci, but sci in a way that more easily sets up its own ambush, it cant hang around and sci debuff for the duration.

fed escorts are better at doing an escort's job, fed cruisers are better at doing a cruisers job, and they have sci ships, as apposed to not having sci ships. getting out played by kdf players has nothing to do with the respective ships
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 24
10-29-2012, 08:16 PM
"Bring a Vesta to beat a Vesta" is the worst kind of degenerate PvP. I'm absolutely serious. It's the perfect example of why of the Vesta, based on what's been leaked and inferred of its abilities, is bad. It's looking like it'll be your wrench, screwdriver, drill, saw, and hammer all of which can change size to fit the task at hand, all in one convenient package without a meaningful trade off. If you had such a tool, it would instantly obsolete all of those individual tools. In business and technological development, that's in many ways a good thing, as often the advances that lead to that expand into other areas and revolutionize other industries, which feedback and revolutionize even more industries. A game is not an industry in such a fashion as these developments don't tend happen as the players that are using the tools are basically stuck where they are.

In virtually every really, truly good PvP game each character has a clear weakness, and those that don't have a specific weakness, are never as good as a specialized character/unit at its niche. When you have a character that does everything and well, they almost always have some tangible weakness: low damage output, fragility, short ranged, or high-risk/moderate rewards. Any lack of durability the Vesta might have will almost certainly be more than made up for by its ability to CC* its opponent, proactively mitigating damage. The ability to slot movement-impairing CC in hangars removes the need to use you BOFF stations for movement control powers, opening up space for more healing or more devastating lockdown-type crowd control (VM, Energy Siphons, and Shockwaves come to mind).

*Crowd Control: This refers, most specifically, to those abilities that inhibit and impair an opponent's ability to operate effectively, and not specifically its ability to deal damage in a large area.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 25
10-29-2012, 08:18 PM
i look forward to my new vesta (dispite it looking ugly as hell).

it will go good with my timeship.


the biggest mistake you guys are making here is thinking cryptic has any intention of making this a team based game.

its not.

they only care about the kirk.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 26
10-29-2012, 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair114 View Post
"Bring a Vesta to beat a Vesta" is the worst kind of degenerate PvP. I'm absolutely serious. It's the perfect example of why of the Vesta, based on what's been leaked and inferred of its abilities, is bad. It's looking like it'll be your wrench, screwdriver, drill, saw, and hammer all of which can change size to fit the task at hand, all in one convenient package without a meaningful trade off. If you had such a tool, it would instantly obsolete all of those individual tools. In business and technological development, that's in many ways a good thing, as often the advances that lead to that expand into other areas and revolutionize other industries, which feedback and revolutionize even more industries. A game is not an industry in such a fashion as these developments don't tend happen as the players that are using the tools are basically stuck where they are.

In virtually every really, truly good PvP game each character has a clear weakness, and those that don't have a specific weakness, are never as good as a specialized character/unit at its niche. When you have a character that does everything and well, they almost always have some tangible weakness: low damage output, fragility, short ranged, or high-risk/moderate rewards. Any lack of durability the Vesta might have will almost certainly be more than made up for by its ability to CC* its opponent, proactively mitigating damage. The ability to slot movement-impairing CC in hangars removes the need to use you BOFF stations for movement control powers, opening up space for more healing or more devastating lockdown-type crowd control (VM, Energy Siphons, and Shockwaves come to mind).

*Crowd Control: This refers, most specifically, to those abilities that inhibit and impair an opponent's ability to operate effectively, and not specifically its ability to deal damage in a large area.
I can't really see it lacking durability, the shield mod'll go no lower than ~1.3.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 27
10-29-2012, 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
I can't really see it lacking durability, the shield mod'll go no lower than ~1.3.
Eh, I more or less agree. My point was more that, in a sustained engagement, any possible weakness in endurance will be made up more than adequately the additional space made available by making Tractor Beam powers redundant. It also would allow the Vesta to be a stronger healer than it already will be.

Has anyone leaked any concrete stats on the ship? The only thing I've seen around for it is that it'll definitely carry DHC's and at least 1 hangar. Sensor Analysis and Subsystem Targeting can be surmised from it being a Science Ship, but I don't think I've seen any iron-clad info on it.

To sum it up, when all questions are are answered with a single answer, all other answers, ones that only answer a single question, become the wrong answer.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 28
10-29-2012, 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
as it stands now, a GOOD sci/sci focusing on you will leave you all but helpless and defenseless, basically leaving you crippled with 75% to 100% up time. but, its unlikely they will have the firepower to actual kill you even in that state, thats what team work is for.

this vesta is going to have VASTLY enhanced movement control for absolutely free thanks to runabouts, on top of every other sci/sci trick. and then it will beat on you with its 3 DHCs, dealing near escort damage, when you are at your most vulnerable. it can do this all by itself.


i really shouldn't have to explained why this all in 1 with 0 downsides is a VERY BAD thing. and no, it will have no actual downsides, you can count on it.
Agreed, agreed, agreed. The big question, as noted above by somebody else, is a turnrate. DHC on a ship with 9-10 turnrate is only minimally impressive and won't do much against faster moving escorts and even the new timeships. Cruisers are of course a diff. story.

@gradstudent1
PvP Boot Camp Project Leader Emeritus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 29
10-29-2012, 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by levi3 View Post
All these comments sound like KDF players complaining that their ships won't be king of PvP anymore. Are you upset that the Feds might have a equal or better ship for the first time - come on let's get to the truth.
When KDF is superior in a PvP match (and its superiority is in no way a given [many anecdotes available]) it is because of superior communication and coordination, not because of superior ships. That said, a Fed team with even moderate communication and coordination, a number of science-flying Vestas (according to the hypothetical abilities it seems to have), with captains that know how to use science skills, is problematic at best.

@gradstudent1
PvP Boot Camp Project Leader Emeritus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,126
# 30
10-29-2012, 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtheyak View Post
4. Booze and cupcakes
these are 2 popular items in our household.

i still say this is a troll thread.
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