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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,046
Hello, since the first thread on this matter

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=374791

had to be put down due to the fact it had become slightly smelly this is the 2d pass on this matter.

Proposal Klingon Scout ships

For those of you who might have an objection to this idea, I have tried to anticipate those objections as best I can and included them in my proposal.

"Klingons don't have scientists"
This is wrong.
Since the TOS episode "Day of the Dove" we know Klingon warships carry science officers.

"But Mara was Kang's wife"
True, but "A Klingon's life is his work not his family." -Klag
So it is very unlikely she got that position had she not been suited for it or had there been no need for it on a Klingon Battlecuiser.
There was also a science station on the cruiser "Pagh" in TNG "A Matter of Honor" so it's not out of place on a Klignon warship.

"Klingons are conquerors, not explorers"
While Klingons enjoy conquering quite a lot, they have colonies on various worlds that don't seem to have any indiginous population.
And if a world had one, how did the Klingons find that planet in the first place?

Klingons do go out into space to investigate solar systems.
They do so to see if there are planets that are suitable for colonization or have exploitable resources.
If those worlds are populated they might become subjects of the Klingon Empire when warships arrive to conquer them.
Asteroids can contain valuable materials that can be mined via small mining bases constructed in or near them.
Klingons may investigate nebulae to see if they can be used as power sources etc.

For this they need ships with scientific equipment.
Sure Klingon applications of these scientific systems would be somewhat more "practical" than the way Starfleet would do things but the general functionality would be comparable.

For example Starfleet would survey a mountain to learn something about the age and history of a planet.
Klingons would survey the same mountain to see if it contains valuable minerals.

Starfleet would investigate flaura and fauna to learn something about the way evolution occured on the planet.
Klingons would check for hazards and investigate whether flaura and fauna would make them a good foodsource for a possible colonization.

A Starfleet geologist would analyze the tectonic stability of an area out of interest.
A Klingon geologist would check whether an area is stable enought for a colony, a mine or whether it is suitable for a geothermal powerplant.

Different goals, similar means.
Klingons would probably have ships more suited for long-range scouting missions compared to their battlecruisers.
Relative to their size, these vessels would have greater fuel and material reserves (spare parts) for independent operations.
They would probabaly have more dedicated sensor equipment and far less science labs of any kind than their federation counterparts.
Crew size and armament would be limited due to the need to carry the sensors, supplies etc.

So how do Klingons find new worlds to colonise or conquer?
How do they track enemy fleets?
How do they provide jamming and counter-jamming in battle?

"A sharp blade is useless without a sharp eye"- Koloth in
"Blood Oath"


What's still missing from the KDF roster is a military scout.


"But those are not canon"
Is that so?
The Raptor was actually called "scout ship" in "Sleeping Dogs".
Kruge's Bird of Prey was called that as well.
In the unremastered version of TOS there was also a Klingon scout ship.
There is also soft-canon reference to Klingon scouts which were 1/3rd the size of a contemporary cruiser.
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Klingon_scout_vessel
So it's consistent those are not shuttlecraft but starships in their own right.

By the 24th century it seems the Klingons were still using scouts even though their class remains unknown.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Klingon_scout_ship

Please note that since the crew of DS9 did not just refer to them a "Bird of Prey" it must be a seperate
class while the Bird of Prey was no longer used as a scout.

In the other thread, jnohd asked whether the loadout defines a Klingon ship is a scout and not its class.
I though about that and it seems that is is also not the case.
In the DS9 Episodes "Dramatis Personae" we see a Klingon battlecruiser that was sent on a bio survey mission.
The episode never refers to it as a scout.

"Shut up and use the BoP, it's got universals"
Despite this, the BoP is ill-equipped since it lacks the science consoles to do all these things.
In STO "science" does not exclusively equal "research", it equals space for good sensors, jamming equipment etc.
A ship with proper science capabilities of Klingon design is simply missing.

"So you want a Klingon copy of a Fed science ship"
No, what I propose is something seperate from science ships.
I'd like to propose a ship derived from Raptors.
Less guns, more electronic warfare.
Federation designs are pretty much derived from cruisers.
Thus a Klingon scout design would be smaller than an average Federation science ship but more maneuverable.

Here are example stats:

Tier 5 Military Scout.

Commander Science
Lieutenant Commander Science
Lieutenant Engineering
Lieutenant Tactical
Ensign Tactical

Crew: 150
Turnrate: 15
Hull: 33,000
Shield mod: 1.0
Weapons 3/2
No Subsytem targeting
Sensor Analysis
Can use Cannons
Cloak

Consoles:
Engineering:3
Science:4
Tactical:2
Bonus Power:
+5 Engines
+10 Aux


Aestetically I'd propose a Raptor with visible sensor arrays along its hull.
There is no need for any complex changes to an existing Raptor model so this would be rather simple to implement.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 2
10-31-2012, 07:10 AM
I still support the idea.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 159
# 3
10-31-2012, 10:10 AM
They need a dedicated sci ship. I think just more ships would make people play the kdf more.

And this sci ship looks good.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 69
# 4
10-31-2012, 11:14 AM
I like it. A Raptor based science heavy vessel makes sense for the Klingons as opposed to the Fedrats cruiser based science heavy vessels.

Another option would be a BOP mission pod that makes a BOP closer to a science vessel in capability, but a purpose built science ship is a better solution.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8
# 5
10-31-2012, 12:10 PM
The KDF needs a science vessel and have needed one for a long time. I will buy one if they make it and not stick in a lock box.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 69
# 6
11-01-2012, 09:09 AM
We do actually have a series of Gorn vessels that are true science ships, but they're C-Store items, and they're basicall ycopies of what the Feds get for free.

I think what the OP is asking for is a science vessel that's more Klingon flavoured, and basing it on an escort would definately make it different then the Fed science ships.

If people dislike having Klingons and Science together in one sentence (I'm not sure why) then we can use the term "electronics warfare" instead.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 7
11-01-2012, 10:02 AM
Make it free.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 8
11-04-2012, 10:53 AM
Actually I dont see why you're asking for a new type of ship for this.


Merely ask for a BOP that has more science stations and you're set.

In all the trek series the klingon 'scouts' referred not to the ship but the ship's mission. The majority of the times a 'scout' was mentioned it was a bird of prey. It makes sense to have a small, fast, expendable ship that can cloak as a scout of any sort.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,046
# 9
11-04-2012, 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
Actually I dont see why you're asking for a new type of ship for this.


Merely ask for a BOP that has more science stations and you're set.

In all the trek series the klingon 'scouts' referred not to the ship but the ship's mission. The majority of the times a 'scout' was mentioned it was a bird of prey. It makes sense to have a small, fast, expendable ship that can cloak as a scout of any sort.
I have to ask whether you've read my proposal.
Because I already adressed the question whether the term scout is based on the ship's mission.
And there is no evidence for that considering we've seen a Vor'cha on such a mission and it was not referred to as scout.
And a Bird of Prey was exactly once referred to as a scout, in Star Trek 3.
And that was based fuzzy sensor images that didn't allow for any identification whatsoever.
That it might have served in that role in the 23rd century does not automatically mean it still does in the 25th, especially when you look at its use as a warship in the 24th.

Besides, why would the crew of DS9 sometimes refer to a Klingon ship as a "Klingon scout ship" and not a "Klingon Bird of Prey" if the two were basically the same?
They'd have no way to tell the difference unless the two were distinct types of ship.
This is a clear counterindication that the BoP still serves in that role in the late 2370s.

Last edited by misterde3; 11-04-2012 at 11:55 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,016
# 10
11-05-2012, 03:34 AM
The Klingons definitely have science officers, but I doubt they would have science ships. They probably look at exploring as just looking for more races to conquer or fight with. Give the Lethean's or the other race with funny mouths a science ship. Their PVE missions need more variety anyways.

I bet when the Klingons find something scientifically wondrous, they send a report to high command and a special team comes to investigate.
The Somraw, K'tinga, D'Kyr, D7, Kumari, Xindi carrier, Xindi escort, and the T'Varo are all older than the Constitution Refit and yet they are tier 5. The Constellation is made up primarily of Connie refit parts and it is tier 5, there is no logical reason whatsoever for the no tier 5/6 connie rule.
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