I don't know man, I look at the Vesta and I keep drawing comparisons in my head to the Kar'fi and the Fleet Vor'cha in terms of actual combat effectiveness.

Essentially with the boff layout and console layouts, I believe that the Vesta will be a very effective healer. However I also believe that it will not be a particularly effective damage dealer and it's group support (non-healing) will be ok but nothing superior to the current ships out there such as the temporal craft or even the normal Fed ships.

The reason that I think this is because of the same problems that plague the Kar'fi and the fleet Vor'cha, i.e. they are glass cannons when unsupported. The difference is that this ship has less firepower than either of those craft, and it would have to have it's damage augmented via Sci slots, which would also be needed to keep the ship alive.

That said, I'm not saying that this ship couldn't be turned into something vicious as there are definitely some ideas going through my head that could be done, I'm just saying that this thing will not be a solopwnmobile....

In fairness Hori, the Fleet Defiant gives the bug a pretty good run for its money. I've killed Fleet Patrols in the bog-standard RA Patrol Escort before but I sure as hell had to work for it.

wow.

i lose more and more confidence all the time with this community.

through almost 3 years of playing this game, and this basic formula even killing the almighty bug ship regularly...every time i call out for it.....

and this ship will be the one that does not die to the maxim debuff and spike in the game?

im sorry, ive popped everyone from "so and so" in TSI to "so and so" in Enter generic fleet name. no matter what you run.

mt does it at will. so does aytanhi. and i think yoda sips tea and meditates while killing. he is that smooth. you think naz won't be popping these things like teenage pimples right out the gate?

.....

its a team game guys. sometimes it takes 2 to take down 1. sometimes it takes 3. but it all comes down to buff stripping, crowd control, spike damage, and timing. and if what you did the first time does not work, then play defensive and observe for 2 minutes. it is a supprising long window to evaluate your surroundings.

You can't kill my bug I GOT 90000 hull

well damn im just at 60k.

but, ive seen accx2-3 DHC crit for 12-17k each for 3 volleys under rapid fire in 4 seconds and rip that apart. i did it 5 times last night.

hell, it happens to me when i get nuked, scanned, and hit with fire on my mark. that also happened 3 times last night.

edit: i was teamed with bobjob for that match. he was on his sci. and we ripped it up. not even in communication, we just gravitated towards each others targets naturally. i watched for his nuke and scan. and they fell 1 by 1.

How did the Jem'hadar come into this?

Anyway, I see the Vesta as a limiting ship in every role but as a healer. To bring these ships into a team setting as damage dealers, is to reduce the overall damage dealing effectiveness of the team itself since the Vesta cannot deal the same damage as an escort by even a close margin with its weapon, boff and console layout. That means that the ship is relegated to the supplementary damage role like a normal cruiser, only to less effect.

This ship will be fun to mess around with and either pug or pug-stomp, but as an actual game changer, I'm not seeing it the more and more that I think about it.

thats what im saying sivar.

people on the other thread all like this is crazy OP and the devs have lost their mind.

all ships die to this. even the mighty bug. thats why it was brought up. read my last post.

good pilots that have support are hard to kill regardless of their ship choice. this ship is just like all the rest, just a different spice, with a lil +1

But...

So where are the other 1-2 guys when your 2-3 guys are taking down the first guy?

You're basically describing a premade duo running through PUGs that are staring at the wall while drooling... they're grabbing their ankles and waiting in line to die.

How about if you're bringing 2-3 guys - then they bring 2-3 guys as well. It's not a 2-3 v 1, it's a 2-3 v 2-3...?

Thinking of all ships in terms of escorts or "healers" is a bit limited in my opinion... crowd control isn't as strong in a team setting as it is in most games because healers can cross-apply cleanse effects, sure, but there are definitely places for ships that inhabit some murky region between.

When I used to play League there was a term for a universally-detested class called "tanky DPS", meaning they had just under the damage output of a typical damage class but the extreme resilience of a tank class. In higher level games it'd fall off (i.e. you couldn't just field five tanky-deeps and faceroll) because teams could more effectively heal and protect their glass cannons, but it was still a very strong strategy and it was the source of a lot of butthurt with the playerbase.

I agree with the OP. Though I'd modify it slightly:

Tac in Fleet Defiant/Fleet BoP with ICC + 2 SubNuc Doffs + 3 Technicians + lol rep captain abilities >>>>>>>> Vesta, attack bug, atrox, oddy, boxship, timeship, whatever's coming...

(That's the USS Aegis. I break it out when I want everyone to share my very bad day)