Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 41
11-01-2012, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawks3052 View Post
Beside this Cryptic is too busy making new Fed C-Store goodies and Season 7 Fed only cotent to even think about KDF.
People like you are just trying to stir up an argument. Name one piece of "Fed only content" that is coming with Season 7.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 742
# 42
11-01-2012, 10:46 AM
Posted else where.. expect to feel targ fangs in the meat of my cheeks any time soon.

My prediction is the KDF will not get the love untill they finally run out of cannon and near cannon things to provide the fed faction...

Then it shall be a wonderfull day for the Klingon Empire..etc, etc, bla, bla, bla....

and we'll get ships, mission content, epic story arcs etc etc etc...

And we will of course get charged for them...

"Beyond Stovokor Klingon Special Story arc.. Only 600 Zen.. Onlock on your account TODAY!
6 missions with possible special rewards for players!"

They did in in Champions online.. I'm surprised they haven't done it here yet.

(yes it was promised that mission content will always be free...As a KDF player I just nod and say "uh, yea, ok" and watch the PWI quarterly statements which tell me more about the real state of the game then anything I get from Mr. Stahl)

We'll certainly get charged for the ships.

And now the feds have the awsomeness Vesta class for the deep pocket Pay to win players..

I check in and look around now and again in STO.. But I really don't spend a lot of time playing. All there is to do is grind the same old missions, or run a 3 pack of UGC stuff per day to get the dilithium.

I really wish I'd never bought my LTM now.

WHEN they've run out of things to sell to the fed players, then we'll see KDF content.. I don't expect to ever see a player be able to open an account and start as a KDF player though... After 3 years.. pffft.. I spend my spare cash over at NCSoft on **** stuff, and GW 2. Without story and mission content theres nothing here.. And STO missions tend to be real lock step any way.. do the same mission the same way.. If my programming skills were up to it I swear I could write an external app that would syncronize 5 players and bot through STF's. In other MMO's you can run the open content for the most part and its always a little different.

SO, you guys know that a remake of Starfleet Command II Empires at War has been made right? It'll run under Vista and Windows 7 and 8. Do a Google search and get in on it.. Starship combat that feels real based on the old Starfleet Battles table top game...

Give it a go.

Oh, Shoutouts to the Roach and the rest of the crew.

Khemaraa Sends
Release 8.5 "STO The Next Generation"

Let the happy old bug stomping commence, along with refinement toward enhancing each factions play experience!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 43
11-01-2012, 10:46 AM
The Vesta,

until or if they do not create a KDF equivalent.

(though you are right in that this thread has bit of KDF doom & gloom.
The feds still have thier "Cruisers suck....." series of threads if teh KDF D&G is getting to you.)
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 11-01-2012 at 10:50 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,623
# 44
11-01-2012, 11:15 AM
I suspect a human factor may in fact be involved in the steady absence of KDF material.

Basically, put yourself in the shoes of a Dev. reading feedback.

NOW, I've been watching these threads for a little while, but I confess, I'm still a "Noob"...here's my observation though-going back to some prior experience in the tabletop games industry...


Criticism that calls for people's heads by name, tends to have the inverse result to the critic's stated desire.

Do you folks understand that? Name-calling, tantrums, and threats DO NOT WORK, and in many cases with Dev staff (because it takes a certain kind of personality to run a Development team for a game), they have the opposite of your desired effect.

Developers are both creative, AND EMOTIONAL centred people-which means that (and there's lots and LOTS of history here on the forums to back me up on this) they tend to react poorly to flamage, overt hostility, and threats. They also tend to react badly to tantrums and, as the management consultant recently said at work, "Negativity"-ie "Doom and gloom".


Devs have said it's more fun to create Klingon ships because they're less hampered by conforming to Canon-so why don't they do that? Because, folks, the community on the KDF side has given them a reason to view RELEASING that content as a chore, something to be avoided, because who gives a labor of love to someone whom has given them nothing but a **** sandwich?

Further, Investors don't like it when their customer base calls them names. Pettiness is generally nothing but an excuse to be vindictive in return, and honestly, the MMO community on-line survives on churn anyway, so it becomes a lot EASIER to say, "No, delay that, work on THIS instead" when an investor comes onto the forums and sees 7 posts out of 10 saying how much people hate the Development staff, think the game's dying, or wish the game/game company would go under.

The state of KDF content is influenced by human factors, and by License factors-CBS owns the IP this game is licensed under, that's a bit like when Wizkids was holding all Battletech, and Fanpro had to license from them to keep the tabletop game on store shelves-some input from the License Holder may well be involved in the decisions as to what gets released, and to whom-and I'll bet you a set of Fleet Modules that CBS' oversight guy or his rep reads these threads occasionally-and influences Cryptic/PWE as to which factions get what, based on the 'vision' of CBS/Paramount AND THE CONDUCT OF THE COMMUNITY, esp. where it connects to the financial goals/model of the Free to Play concept.

Just as Wizkids did with Fanpro for Battletech/Mechwarrior and later Topps does with Catalyst regarding Battletech.

If your lead Devs have emotional reasons NOT to go to bat for your faction when discussing the direction of the game with the guy who holds the license, they're NOT GOING TO. I see plenty of reasons for DStahl to look at these forums, and say to himself, "**** them."

Last edited by patrickngo; 11-01-2012 at 11:23 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,188
# 45
11-01-2012, 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
I suspect a human factor may in fact be involved in the steady absence of KDF material.

Basically, put yourself in the shoes of a Dev. reading feedback.

NOW, I've been watching these threads for a little while, but I confess, I'm still a "Noob"...here's my observation though-going back to some prior experience in the tabletop games industry...


Criticism that calls for people's heads by name, tends to have the inverse result to the critic's stated desire.

Do you folks understand that? Name-calling, tantrums, and threats DO NOT WORK, and in many cases with Dev staff (because it takes a certain kind of personality to run a Development team for a game), they have the opposite of your desired effect.

Developers are both creative, AND EMOTIONAL centred people-which means that (and there's lots and LOTS of history here on the forums to back me up on this) they tend to react poorly to flamage, overt hostility, and threats. They also tend to react badly to tantrums and, as the management consultant recently said at work, "Negativity"-ie "Doom and gloom".


Devs have said it's more fun to create Klingon ships because they're less hampered by conforming to Canon-so why don't they do that? Because, folks, the community on the KDF side has given them a reason to view RELEASING that content as a chore, something to be avoided, because who gives a labor of love to someone whom has given them nothing but a **** sandwich?

Further, Investors don't like it when their customer base calls them names. Pettiness is generally nothing but an excuse to be vindictive in return, and honestly, the MMO community on-line survives on churn anyway, so it becomes a lot EASIER to say, "No, delay that, work on THIS instead" when an investor comes onto the forums and sees 7 posts out of 10 saying how much people hate the Development staff, think the game's dying, or wish the game/game company would go under.

The state of KDF content is influenced by human factors, and by License factors-CBS owns the IP this game is licensed under, that's a bit like when Wizkids was holding all Battletech, and Fanpro had to license from them to keep the tabletop game on store shelves-some input from the License Holder may well be involved in the decisions as to what gets released, and to whom-and I'll bet you a set of Fleet Modules that CBS' oversight guy or his rep reads these threads occasionally-and influences Cryptic/PWE as to which factions get what, based on the 'vision' of CBS/Paramount AND THE CONDUCT OF THE COMMUNITY, esp. where it connects to the financial goals/model of the Free to Play concept.

Just as Wizkids did with Fanpro for Battletech/Mechwarrior and later Topps does with Catalyst regarding Battletech.

If your lead Devs have emotional reasons NOT to go to bat for your faction when discussing the direction of the game with the guy who holds the license, they're NOT GOING TO. I see plenty of reasons for DStahl to look at these forums, and say to himself, "**** them."
Don't expect rainbow coated words when the customer base has been lied to time and time again. As long as we are respectful, we can express our opinions about the game, regardless of whether or not it potentially offends/annoys a dev. Also, Dan isn't your your friend, stop apologizing for him and the dev team. Just as you say name calling doesn't work on the forums, neither does trying to telling people exact what to think and say. We pay Cryptic money and expect them to behave professionally, which includes keeping up with promises about when content will be released. Accountability is also part of investing, just in case you didn't know.
=^= Starfleet Code Red Message =^= Starfleet intelligence's central network was compromised by an insidious ARC virus. All captains are to avoid contact with the ARC until we can ascertain how dangerous it is. All ships remain on high alert!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,376
# 46
11-01-2012, 11:36 AM
patrickngo, you clearly haven't been dealing with the same devs we have. Would you go to a restaurant and order the food and sit there and suffer for 2 hours waiting, then get cold, burned/charred food that's nearly inedible? You'd send it back and verbally berate the chef.

Or would you rather go to a restaurant where the chef actually eats, too? One that at least quality checks before sending plates out of the kitchen, and gets your order right?


Guess which one we have? Hint: Devs don't bother QA'ing or even playing this game.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,623
# 47
11-01-2012, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
patrickngo, you clearly haven't been dealing with the same devs we have. Would you go to a restaurant and order the food and sit there and suffer for 2 hours waiting, then get cold, burned/charred food that's nearly inedible? You'd send it back and verbally berate the chef.

Or would you rather go to a restaurant where the chef actually eats, too? One that at least quality checks before sending plates out of the kitchen, and gets your order right?


Guess which one we have? Hint: Devs don't bother QA'ing or even playing this game.
So why are you still here-threatening to leave does nothing if the person you're threatening has a reason to believe the threat is empty, and having left, you're no longer of concern to the staff-ergo, your tantrum achieves zip.

Rainbows and fluffy bunnies isn't going to fix it, but neither is howling and raging and holding your breath like a 2 year old, or kicking and screaming like that annoying six year old at the grocery whose parents spolt them rotten.

as someone who's WORKED in the industry on the tabletop/pen and paper side, in a community with a VERY active player base, the more your feedback looks like a temper-tantrum, the less effective it's going to be-at a certain point, threats of "I'm leaving!!" become a Promise to just go away.

Do you understand that very simple idea?

Here's the deal: you're NOT BEING EFFECTIVE.

at least, not if you actually WANT Dev time put on KDF, PVP, etc.

RE-evaluate your tactics and goals, start looking for alternative methods to whining and tantrums. If you can't find any, well...carry out your threats.

OR you could try a little applied psychology and a rationally organized, structured, business-case-scenario with 4square layout, solid marketing data, numbers/game theory based cost/benefit analysis written in a professional format, to make your point to the powers-that-be, and instead of posting it on a forum, sending it to Cryptic AND the License Holders making your case like an adult.

If you treat people like professionals, you get professional results-most of the time. Unfortunately for you, if you were to do that, and do it successfully, you may end up in a position where you have to carry through...

Last edited by patrickngo; 11-01-2012 at 11:57 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,376
# 48
11-01-2012, 12:56 PM
Don't be such a pretentious yes-man. The people working on this game lost all drive and motivation years back.

Here's the deal right back at you: There's a difference between a few petulant children throwing fits, and the ENTIRE GAME BASE being fed up with you. You're transferring your own personal experiences to a situation that isn't the same.

I promise you, they gave up and phoned it in long ago. It's a paycheck to them. There's no passion in it anymore. There's no desire to even do a good job anymore. There's no pride to wound, at this point. There's no feeling to hurt.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,188
# 49
11-01-2012, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
Don't be such a pretentious yes-man. The people working on this game lost all drive and motivation years back.

Here's the deal right back at you: There's a difference between a few petulant children throwing fits, and the ENTIRE GAME BASE being fed up with you. You're transferring your own personal experiences to a situation that isn't the same.

I promise you, they gave up and phoned it in long ago. It's a paycheck to them. There's no passion in it anymore. There's no desire to even do a good job anymore. There's no pride to wound, at this point. There's no feeling to hurt.
No use trying to prove something that should be obvious to him. Let him hang around a few seasons, and he'll end up being just as cynical as we are.

Even die hard Cryptic apologists and fans like Chris from Stoked gave up on STO podcasting. If that isn't proof enough to the apologists, nothing is.
=^= Starfleet Code Red Message =^= Starfleet intelligence's central network was compromised by an insidious ARC virus. All captains are to avoid contact with the ARC until we can ascertain how dangerous it is. All ships remain on high alert!
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 269
# 50
11-01-2012, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
So why are you still here-threatening to leave does nothing if the person you're threatening has a reason to believe the threat is empty, and having left, you're no longer of concern to the staff-ergo, your tantrum achieves zip.

Rainbows and fluffy bunnies isn't going to fix it, but neither is howling and raging and holding your breath like a 2 year old, or kicking and screaming like that annoying six year old at the grocery whose parents spolt them rotten.

as someone who's WORKED in the industry on the tabletop/pen and paper side, in a community with a VERY active player base, the more your feedback looks like a temper-tantrum, the less effective it's going to be-at a certain point, threats of "I'm leaving!!" become a Promise to just go away.

Do you understand that very simple idea?

Here's the deal: you're NOT BEING EFFECTIVE.

at least, not if you actually WANT Dev time put on KDF, PVP, etc.

RE-evaluate your tactics and goals, start looking for alternative methods to whining and tantrums. If you can't find any, well...carry out your threats.

OR you could try a little applied psychology and a rationally organized, structured, business-case-scenario with 4square layout, solid marketing data, numbers/game theory based cost/benefit analysis written in a professional format, to make your point to the powers-that-be, and instead of posting it on a forum, sending it to Cryptic AND the License Holders making your case like an adult.

If you treat people like professionals, you get professional results-most of the time. Unfortunately for you, if you were to do that, and do it successfully, you may end up in a position where you have to carry through...
And what makes you think other people haven't tried the other approach? Because they have. That worked about as well as the approach you're berating.

The end result is 1/5th of the player base who are grumpy and cynical.
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