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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,122
# 31
11-01-2012, 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
If you use SNB doffs, I don't want to hear one peep from you about getting Danubed, AMSed, Gpulsed, etc.

If you use SNB doffs it's open season with whatever cheese the game has on you. It's that simple.

Seeing as how the overwhelming majority of SNB doffs seem to be Fed origin, that means we're going to be seeing a lot of cheeseballs coming from the Fed side. So if they bring that ****, hit them hard with whatever crap you got.

If they want to burn down PvP just to feel powerful for a short while, then let's all burn it down together.
Like I said, I don't complain about the cheese other people bring to a pvp battle. I deal with it. If I lose, I lose. Not that big a deal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ilhansk View Post
I am curious,

what is the name of your fleet?
Why does this matter? When I say some members of our fleet, I mean 3. There isn't a lot of people in the fleet that could afford it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecaptain View Post
I am 90 percent sure this guy is from 12th fleet the pve hero pvp fleet.
My fleet is a casual fleet that, yes, does PvE. That doesn't stop us from enjoying in-fleet PvP. And, recently, we've been hitting the queues. My build has always been with the intention of PvP. I have taken a lot of information and advice from others on the PvP forums.

In fact, the majority of the advice I received was from a user named Vizmu almost a year ago. They claimed they were an old school pvper. I don't know the validity of their claims.

Last edited by shookyang; 11-01-2012 at 12:13 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,122
# 32
11-01-2012, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecaptain View Post
Not a comparable scenario only ships that would ever run fwc consoles are sci ships with specifically drain builds the whole team wouldn't be running them. All polaron's most likely all turrets not likely.
And that is entirely my point.

How often have you seen a team running all turrets and you getting SNBed by the doff every 7.5 seconds (now 15)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecaptain View Post
As far as worse cheese in this game right now. Hmm while there is some pretty nasty crap I can't see what is more op then snb doffs. I think most of the pvp community agrees with that.
Really? Polarons with their 2 procs, the second being stackable? Energy syphon drones?

I've been told that, with the SNB ability, it affects self-buffs and not buffs from team mates? Is that true? Does that still apply with the SNB doffs? If so, and you lost your TT (which people on this forum have complained that it's too powerful anyways), someone else can cast it on you. Lost your shield heal? ES, TSS, and ST.

Last edited by shookyang; 11-01-2012 at 12:23 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 60
# 33
11-01-2012, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
And that is entirely my point.

How often have you seen a team running all turrets and you getting SNBed by the doff every 7.5 seconds (now 15)?
You don't need to run all turrets to get the proc and remember the total proc chance just jumped from 1.5 percent to 3 percent so it's gonna get worse. Pax's test was just to get the maximum proc with less than 5 ships just to get the devs to listen. As far as how often I have seen all five ships running 15 total of these idk. It's so hard to tell that's the problem with these things. And I am not always the one being fired on so who knows. This doff only takes one resource from your build as opposed to skill tree points console slots boff powers like some abilities do to be viable. Low opportunity cost high rewards. Three little doff slots that's it as opposed to a sci captain who gives up major burst dps for their snb. And yes while the sci captains snb has a secondary debuff affect the secondary effect is minor compared to it's primary affect as most would agree too.

A 15 snb doff team now can very easily now run their standard 8 beam boat and all dual heavy and turret escorts. Run all heals maybe 2 total tractor beams and every 15 seconds a target dies. Maybe run 4 tact captains and one engy. And yes while the team can send you heals through all that it's harder to react since you don't have a giant snb symbol painted across your hull. Even so no player can constantly keep an eye on their active powers tray during heavy combat and I can't imagine anyone puts that status display in the middle of their hud. I am very sure there are many premade fleets or even pugs that can come together to run close to this optimal snb doff killer setup that have the resources in place. Even if there is not a premade setup like this getting a pug with even 3 ships running this and actually focusing there fire should easily proc the target even if not in 15 seconds certainly not longer beyond that.


I do want to do a new practical more logical test. 3 escorts all dh and tur builds 3 snb doffs 2 crf firing on one tanky engy cruiser on low weapons power of course. This situation will be the one that occurs more often than not after the patch.

Last edited by futurecaptain; 11-01-2012 at 12:40 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,122
# 34
11-01-2012, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecaptain View Post
You don't need to run all turrets to get the proc and remember the total proc chance just jumped from 1.5 percent to 3 percent so it's gonna get worse. Pax's test was just to get the maximum proc with less than 5 ships just to get the devs to listen. As far as how often I have seen all five ships running 15 total of these idk. It's so hard to tell that's the problem with these things. And I am not always the one being fired on so who knows. This doff only takes one resource from your build as opposed to skill tree points console slots boff powers like some abilities do to be viable. Low opportunity cost high rewards. Three little doff slots that's it as opposed to a sci captain who gives up major burst dps for their snb. And yes while the sci captains snb has a secondary debuff affect the secondary effect is minor compared to it's primary affect as most would agree too.
I prefer the SDO, even after the change. As such, I currently run one SNB officer, and have considered slotting a second.

I'd like paxottoman to run another test and show me evidence that the change is for the worse, without using all turrets. I will change my opinion if that is the case. Three captains running all turrets with 8 SNB doffs among the three of them seems unrealistic to me. There are lot of folks that throw in cannons, arrays, banks, and torpedoes.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 60
# 35
11-01-2012, 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
I prefer the SDO, even after the change. As such, I currently run one SNB officer, and have considered slotting a second.

I'd like paxottoman to run another test and show me evidence that the change is for the worse, without using all turrets. I will change my opinion if that is the case. Three captains running all turrets with 8 SNB doffs among the three of them seems unrealistic to me. There are lot of folks that throw in cannons, arrays, banks, and torpedoes.
In general that is true. If I don't run a torp up front I will run 1 dbb for a beam overload 2 for high single shot burst dmg. And while I can't speak for the majority it seems illogical to run just one snb doff and rarely get the proc. It seems like if you are going to run it run all three.

Yeah it seems to me if you are going to do a test like this do a test for a situation that will be FAR MORE LIKELY to occur in the q's than that original test that was used to simply get the devs attention.

Last edited by futurecaptain; 11-01-2012 at 12:46 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 417
# 36
11-01-2012, 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
In any case, a few of my fleet members (including myself) use them and will continue to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Why does this matter?
OK let me answer your question:

SNB DOFF users are corrupting the game play experience in PVP. By your own admission you and some of your fleet members are SNB DOFF users.

You have seen our test video and know how game breaking those doffs are. Yet you use them.

If you and your fleet friends do not abstain from using those doffs, we will return the favour. The life span of you and your friends each will be around 3 to 15 seconds max and there will be nothing you can do about it. You will not enjoy it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
It's a game. People use polaron weapons, and I don't rage quit because I'm up against them.
Polarons? That is your excuse? There are other energy type procs the PVP community regards as far more powerful. In my ears complaining about Polaron procs sounds utterly... random.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Three captains running all turrets with 8 SNB doffs among the three of them seems unrealistic to me.
Watch that video again please.

We DID NOT use all turret weapon loadouts. We used a weapons mix that average people use in practice; the escorts have DHC's in the front and turrets in the back, the carrier uses Beams. A mix that is absolutly usual.

If we had used all-turrets and 15 SNB DOFFs and whatnot the proc rate would have increased dramaticly.

Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some pew pew PVP action!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,122
# 37
11-01-2012, 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecaptain View Post
In general that is true. If I don't run a torp up front I will run 1 dbb for a beam overload 2 for high single shot burst dmg. And while I can't speak for the majority it seems illogical to run just one snb doff and rarely get the proc. It seems like if you are going to run it run all three.
I didn't want to totally cheese my way to victory. That's also why I don't use polarons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecaptain View Post
Yeah it seems to me if you are going to do a test like this do a test for a situation that will be FAR MORE LIKELY to occur in the q's than that original test that was used to simply get the devs attention.
Everyone is screaming bloody murder based of a test using a very specific situation. While it can theoretically be as game breaking as the SNB doff was made out to be, I want to see a more realistic situation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 38
11-01-2012, 02:21 PM
First impression of the BFI doff:

Very good change. Still really useful, but not op.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,122
# 39
11-01-2012, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilhansk View Post
OK let me answer your question:

SNB DOFF users are corrupting the game play experience in PVP. By your own admission you and some of your fleet members are SNB DOFF users.

You have seen our test video and know how game breaking those doffs are. Yet you use them.

If you and your fleet friends do not abstain from using those doffs, we will return the favour. The life span of you and your friends each will be around 3 to 15 seconds max and there will be nothing you can do about it. You will not enjoy it.
You seem to misunderstand. Our fleet doesn't take ourselves as seriously as others. Even if it's used on us, we take our loss and move on. We don't complain about someone dropping tricobalt mines, using AMS, siphon drones, carriers, etc. We play to have fun and congratulate each other and other players on a good game, no matter how much cheese there is.

That said, I doubt my one SNB doff is going to be all that game breaking as you make it out to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilhansk View Post
Polarons? That is your excuse? There are other energy type procs the PVP community regards as far more powerful. In my ears complaining about Polaron procs sounds utterly... random.
It was to illustrate that one can make a situation where a certain configuration could be considered game breaking. And, it seems to me that most people consider polarons as the most overpowered energy type in the game, specifically for the secondary proc that is stackable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ilhansk View Post
Watch that video again please.

We DID NOT use all turret weapon loadouts. We used a weapons mix that average people use in practice; the escorts have DHC's in the front and turrets in the back, the carrier uses Beams. A mix that is absolutly usual.

If we had used all-turrets and 15 SNB DOFFs and whatnot the proc rate would have increased dramaticly.
Thanks for the reminder, as I apparently remembered it wrong. Can you redo this test with the new changes?

Whatever happened to Borticus saying they were going to make the immunity 30 seconds and only remove 3 buffs with the shortest cooldown?

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=315
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=323
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 40
11-01-2012, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakehilbert View Post
First impression of the BFI doff:

Very good change. Still really useful, but not op.
Not to be a bother Hilbert, but could you describe how it works? Is it still possible to get "multiple" heals, or is it a one-time only proc? Does it require taking energy damage?

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
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