Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 69
# 21
11-01-2012, 04:01 PM
I feel like cruisers are tanky enough, I can run my ship right through clouds of bad guys and come out the otherside scorched but still fighting. That feels epic.

But I think the beams vs cannons and their associated powers need to be tweaked a bit.

If "Fire at Will" could function more like cannon scatter volley that would help a lot. Maybe if you have a target selected FAW would concentrate the extra shots in a cone, but if you deselect targets you get the disco ball? I'm just tired of seeing shots hit things like gates and other random targets that I'm not focussed on, overall I feel like I'm doing less damage to my targeted enemy that way.

It's sad when a FAW, followed up with a Torp Spread is less effective than a cannon/turret build using cannon scatter volley.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,134
# 22
11-01-2012, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Can this not turn into an Escorts vs Cruisers thread please. There are already about a hundred or so of those. I would prefer this stay Cruisers ONLY.
The problem with this is the direct connection between the two that stimulates the problem

NOTE: Not create, not cause just stimulate
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,484
# 23
11-01-2012, 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tudenom View Post
It's sad when a FAW, followed up with a Torp Spread is less effective than a cannon/turret build using cannon scatter volley.

There is also the problem that, except for one very specific (and expensive!) exception, using torpedo spread immediately after FAW excludes broad siding. This also requires 2 tactical slots to pull off, and many cruisers only have 2 slots total to work with, which means you're giving up the absolutely invaluable Tactical Team in order to get basic tactical functionality.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 634
# 24
11-01-2012, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Can this not turn into an Escorts vs Cruisers thread please. There are already about a hundred or so of those. I would prefer this stay Cruisers ONLY. Thank you.
Was not my intention to do so, sorry.

@momaw

What they need to do is tweak Tactical Team so that it ceases to be the "must have" tactical power no matter what ship you're flying. Of course if they do nerf the auto-rebalancing feature of it I'm going to be just as upset as everyone else.

Though - if they upped the speed at which the manual balancing worked it might be enough that Tactical Team is no longer a "must have" though I doubt they'll do that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 136
# 25
11-01-2012, 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Can this not turn into an Escorts vs Cruisers thread please. There are already about a hundred or so of those. I would prefer this stay Cruisers ONLY. Thank you.
1st sry for mi english.

Realy sry maybe i need a lot more of practice with mi english.

Mi intention is not match a escort or overpower a escort.


I only wish a more effective crucier to fly with, and a think what the cruciers most cover the role of bomber i give up the +5 to wep and aux for more competive torpedos

and be honest what can do a crucier with only a Lt tac or Lt + ens tac. this is what the fans of TNG get and if u are a follower of the galaxy class like mi yuo only get a Lt tac for a Flag ship ok i pay for a glaxy X and what i get a Lt + ens Tac ( the posibility of load DHC is only cosmetic with only 6? of turn rate....

is mi opinion dont want ofend any one.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,075
# 26
11-02-2012, 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehgato View Post
1st sry for mi english.

Realy sry maybe i need a lot more of practice with mi english.

Mi intention is not match a escort or overpower a escort.


I only wish a more effective crucier to fly with, and a think what the cruciers most cover the role of bomber i give up the +5 to wep and aux for more competive torpedos

and be honest what can do a crucier with only a Lt tac or Lt + ens tac. this is what the fans of TNG get and if u are a follower of the galaxy class like mi yuo only get a Lt tac for a Flag ship ok i pay for a glaxy X and what i get a Lt + ens Tac ( the posibility of load DHC is only cosmetic with only 6? of turn rate....

is mi opinion dont want ofend any one.
thats where your true disappointment lies, not with cruisers in general...it is that specific ship. If you want a potent cruiser get another one!
the galaxy is the weakest ship dmg wise, it is only good for support or tanking (not even tanking in my opinion)
get a more offensive cruiser (excelsior, regent, tac oddy) and all you wish for is there.

most cruiser threads aren't even about cruisers in general, they are about how weak the galaxy is, and honestly i agree...but please, leave that ship alone and do not generalize cruisers based on that one ship.
Go pro or go home
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 27
11-02-2012, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
most cruiser threads aren't even about cruisers in general, they are about how weak the galaxy is, and honestly i agree...but please, leave that ship alone and do not generalize cruisers based on that one ship.
The only real problem there is that the Galaxy was such an iconic ship. A huge part of the franchise was based off of the D and the 24th century in which the D was the flagship of the federation, and the Galaxy was considered probably one of the, if not the most powerful starship (NOT warship mind you) in the Federation.

But baudl is right. If you get more combat oriented cruisers, like the Regen and Tactical Odyssey, you will find many of your damage dealing woes become a moot point. Heck, even the free Assault Cruiser, and MU Assault Cruiser is good at dealing damage if built properly and geared towards damage.

The only catch here is that if you are geared towards damage in a cruiser, you will sacrifice some power in it's main strength: tanking and support (something that I've been made painfully aware of on more than one occasion by a Borg Tactical Cube/Transwarp Gateway that decided to educate me on that fact). The only problem with cruisers in this department (and I mean ALL of them, not just the Galaxy) is that if you spec them towards damage, you will lose out on defense. But that's how it goes. You can't have it all.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,134
# 28
11-03-2012, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
The only catch here is that if you are geared towards damage in a cruiser, you will sacrifice some power in it's main strength: tanking and support (something that I've been made painfully aware of on more than one occasion by a Borg Tactical Cube/Transwarp Gateway that decided to educate me on that fact). The only problem with cruisers in this department (and I mean ALL of them, not just the Galaxy) is that if you spec them towards damage, you will lose out on defense. But that's how it goes. You can't have it all.
The issue with this is that when speccing into damage you lose less defence than you do damage by speccing a healer.

Call me stupid if you will but I still can't see what is unbalanced about a Jack of all trades cruiser after all that is the primary purpose of any cruiser, right? Fill the hole in a given group...
If anything it takes more skill to play the Jack of all trades than to play the tank or damage dealer or the crowd control or the healer as you need to be able to pull all these off and prioritise the aspect the team needs while doing the other bits.

The problem is that you just can't do it... you spec widely to cover all bases and you fall flat on your face and end up completely useless. Now I know you can't be the best at everything (unless you fly the Vesta) but you should be reasonably capable of everything in a cruiser. That by their definition (and in game description) their job and purpose and if you look at Starfleet that's what they are GOOD at.

Last edited by adamkafei; 11-03-2012 at 08:05 AM. Reason: Second pass of the spell checker
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,075
# 29
11-03-2012, 12:16 PM
depends on what you understand is a "jack of all trades"

dmg like a regent + support like a sci oddy and tank ability like a operations oddy? well that's not going to happen.
infact i named already the only ship that would actually fit your playstyle...the oddy. i mean you just need to change the universal BOFF slots to accomodate your current need during combat.

that you can't specc for it is not true, since 6 points in most skills is sufficent anyway, that leaves enough points to even skill particle generator or graviton generator for a usefull grav well.
and if you leave out projectile weapons and go all beams you can easily skill a third or fourth sci abilitiy.

myself i use a oddy starcruiser, and i do not seem to lack neither support, tank, or dmg in PVE atleast.
My engi captain allows me to run high powerlvls nearly all the time (+maco shield) this means i can effectively heal others with TSS2 and HE1 (again, in PVE only)
and with 5 tac boff slots i'm usually not far behind in dmg numbers. The only thing that is really on the edge is tanking, since most tanking capability comes from the engi captain itself and not from the BOFF setup.
so, in my opinion the different oddy versions can provide a "jack of all trades" build without signifficantly suck while doing so.
Go pro or go home
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 30
11-03-2012, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
personally, though i do not think cruisers are underpowered in any way that matters, believe they could get a +1 or even +2 turnrate increase. All of them, except the vor'cha...10 should be the upper limit for cruiser turnrate.
The negh'var is a perfect example of how cruisers should be able to maneuver.
Also a little inertia increase would go well along with that in my opinion.
Some of them just feel too clumsy.
I think this would solve the majority of the issues with the actual design of cruisers.


As for the actual role a cruiser is supposed to fill in PvE, the problem is not with the actual design of Cruisers and more the design of PvE.


So either PvE needs to change to actually make the role of healer or tank useful, or Cruisers need to be brought in line with what this game has for a PvE environment.

The same can be said of Sci ships.


Right now PvE has, broadly speaking, two levels of damage output from NPCs:

1) Not enough damage to realistically stress a careful or well played Escort.

2) Enough damage to one-shot kill even a good cruiser.


Damage levels could be:

1) Enough damage to stress a good cruiser, without the cruiser being attacked by everything on the map.
2) Enough damage to stress a good cruiser that has healing support from another ship.


This would push the game more towards holy trinity playstyle.

You can argue the merits or negative aspects of that all you like.

Without a playstyle that pushes closer to that, there is no point to have a ship that fills any role outside of DPS.

If that is the design intent of the game (no trinity or role specialization pve model), then fine - but the ships that were designed for roles that are not actually needed should be brought in line with the game environment.

Otherwise we can expect threads like this to appear for as long as this game exists.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 11-03-2012 at 01:31 PM.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:31 PM.