Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 21
11-02-2012, 09:43 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
So why good escorts tank almost as good as cruisers ?
BFI DOffs
Cycling EPTS and another EPTx ability for heals and resist buffs
Cycling HE and PH for heals and resist buffs
Cycling TSS and A2Sif for heals and resist buffs
Cycling ApO for resist/defense buffs
Maximizing Bonus speed defense
Using EVM even while sitting still


What a Cruiser can do to achieve Escort levels of defense,
BFI DOffs
Cycling EPTS and another EPTx ability for heals and resist buffs
Cycling HE and PH for heals and resist buffs
Cycling TSS and A2Sif for heals and resist buffs
Maximizing Bonus speed defense
Using EVM even while sitting still
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,004
# 22
11-02-2012, 11:38 AM
The only role turn rate plays in defense is the ability to present a stronger shield facing to your opponents.

The real reason for turn rate is to bring as many available weapons into firing arc as possible. This is why slow-turning ships and limited arc weapons are not a good combination. Even PvE teaches that much.

Also why wise players change direction often and do not neglect their rear weapon slots whilst flying slow ships.

The big problem for Science-oriented builds is that many Science abilities have a limited arc of effect and they're always in the forward arc. Even fast Science vessels can have a hard time bringing certain abilities into play against faster escorts, which is why Science benefits from anything that slows down the opponent.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 454
# 23
11-02-2012, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
The only role turn rate plays in defense is the ability to present a The big problem for Science-oriented builds is that many Science abilities have a limited arc of effect and they're always in the forward arc. Even fast Science vessels can have a hard time bringing certain abilities into play against faster escorts, which is why Science benefits from anything that slows down the opponent.
really?
I fly also a wells with a science toon, it's equiped with 2 dual beam bank, 1x photon torpedo in the front, 1xtemporal device, 1xphoton torpedo, 1xchroniton torpedo in the rear

tactical lt cmd with TT1, TS2, TS3

ensign eng: EPtS1

all others stations are used as follow:

PH, TBR, GW1, GW3
HE1, TSS2
HE1, TSS2

no rcs console

I have no problem to delivery about 4500 DPS even if my primary role is stopping, slowing, debuffing and healing.

I also used the long range science vessel retrofit... good enough even if less resistent. The problem is when you want to use a science ship like an escort or like a cruiser. The same when you want to use a cruiser like a science ship or an escort.



p.s.
before using an escort I used cruisers with my tact toon... I was not good as an eng toon in tanking, but also I had not as mucj dps as a tact toon on escort... simply because my ship wasn't an escort and my toon wasn't an engineer.
Do you want a pure dps scip? then you have to be a tactical on a escort. Do you want to be a great tank? then you have to be a engineer on a cruiser... You cann't do everything good.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 84
# 24
11-03-2012, 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
I kinda think they're good the way they are. Cruisers (obviously the slowest turning ships) shouldn't be able to be made to turn greater than a stock science or escort. By doing that you're making the cruiser in to something it was never designed to be.

My opinion extends to all ships. No ship of one class should ever be able to match the forte of another class. Science and cruisers should never have the DPS and turn of an escort and cruisers and escorts should never be able to out-aux or have a greater shield capacity than a science.
This.

Don't even need to read the rest of the thread. Each type of ship has it's own strengths and weaknesses, no ship should do everything. Hence why the Vesta is coming in 3 different specs.
***The above ramblings are, as always, my own opinion. Based on my experiences and interpreted by my mind, they by no means reflect the universal truth (unless coincidentally). Peace.***
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 25
11-03-2012, 08:05 PM
Quote:
This.
The problem with that is it's the same as saying. Only use RCS on Sci ships. Littrially their tottally usless otherwise. BH it wouldn;t even allow a cruiser to match an escort's turn rate, there's typiclly a 7-9 point differance. Even at +2 per consle only a handful of cruiser could pump their turn rate up that high, and they'd have to do so entierly a the expense of tanking ability. +1.5 and no cruiser is keeping up.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 26
11-05-2012, 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Of course, that's also one reason to keep Evasive Manuvers ready on a cruiser and to use it tactically rather than just an "Oh-No" button.
And that's why Aux2Damps and a cargo hold packed with deuterium surplus are a cruiser captain's best friends.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 27
11-05-2012, 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
And that's why Aux2Damps and a cargo hold packed with deuterium surplus are a cruiser captain's best friends.
Still, their usefulness scale with BASE turn rate, so once again they are actually worst for cruisers, and best for escorts

There is just fundamental flaw in how RCS console works, or rather does not, for anything but escorts.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 28
11-05-2012, 06:43 AM
RCS are just point less now no point in having them at all in game if you can not figure out how to turn properly then way bother.

Use half speed to turn your ship.I never use RCS Accelerator's on any ship.It will waste a engineering slot.

They are worse for use for bigger ship then smaller ships sure smaller ship's will turn faster any way it is mostly be cause of the size of the ship.No real point on wasting a engineering slot for that item.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,004
# 29
11-05-2012, 11:04 AM
I'm trying to decide if...

I were to set up a keybind that would basically slam me into reverse...

Would I have the hand-eye coordination to pilot my ship in reverse using my mouse?

Judging from the few times I've done it manually, I would definitely need practice... I always get mixed up and turn the wrong way.

But that's another way to change direction more quickly than you'd be able to do otherwise, and that method would probably work a lot better for cruisers than escorts that would be likely to over-turn in reverse.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
# 30
11-05-2012, 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Here's where I think we can all agree:

1. The percentage bonus benefits faster ships way more than it benefits slower ones.

2. A single RCS console is basically not worth equipping on a slower ship.

3. Diminishing returns from multiple consoles makes equipping multiple RCS consoles on slower ships non-optimal as opposed to using other Engineering consoles.

4. Faster ships really don't need much of a turn rate bonus; it's only really effective against other fast ships. (Escort on Escort).

5. Turn rate scores are not really a true linear measurement; the actual rate of turn goes up dramatically. A ship with a turn rate of 7 has more than a 1 degree advantage over a ship with a turn rate of 6.

6. Thus, what an RCS console actually does for a slow ship is not very intuitive, and leads new players to expect more than the console is actually designed to deliver.

There is, in fact, practically no good reason to install one on a Galaxy except possibly for Cruiser-on-Cruiser gameplay. You're probably better off equipping an engine with a Turn rate buff.

What a slow ship really needs is something more along the lines of "bursty" turn rate buffs, to make emergency high-speed turns.

The benefit of bursts to turn rate for any ship is to introduce a new variable into the tactical situation. Not to make cruisers turn as well as escorts... but to keep the escort pilots on their toes and not to assume that their target can't bring its' weapons to bear or bring a stronger shield facing about.

Of course, that's also one reason to keep Evasive Manuvers ready on a cruiser and to use it tactically rather than just an "Oh-No" button.
Using 2 RCS consoles I can get the Fleet Torkaht turnrate from mid to upper 20s before any other gear, boffs, or captain powers boost if further. I've used DHCs w/this boat in PvP.

Aux2Damp which all cruisers can use boosts among other things turnrate.

Omega shields boost not only turn rate, but inertia too.

APO, APA boost turnrate.

Evasives, Deut boost turnrate.

Even better piloting and spiking engine power while a quick reverse helps.

There are numerous ways to restrict a target's movement to make your's relatively better.

My guess is people who are having issues are using:

1. Ships designed to broadbeam and have turnrates under 7 and don't like that playstyle.

Or

2. Bad Engines/builds for the turnrate they want.
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