Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 21
11-02-2012, 09:59 AM
I understand what we are all trying to get at here... I just don't think the proposed suggestions have anything to do with skill.

I would rather see the accolade for Optionals be split. Instead of the accolade counting if you get optional on Normal or Elite... make them seperate, then lock Elite based on the number of normal optionals achieved (Say 3 to achieve the accolade).

If it could be gated by each mission, so much the better. I would gladly rerun several Normal STF's (each normal STF) to unlock Elite.
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Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,211
# 22
11-02-2012, 12:06 PM
I don't see why Cryptic couldn't basically grandfather anyone who ever completed an Elite STF... surely that would be possible. And then institute a game mechanic that unlocks the Elite version after you've done the corresponding STF on Normal.

No, it wouldn't keep out relatively unskilled players who have already done it. But it would force guys like me who haven't to at least try to learn the ropes first. And yes, I wouldn't mind being "locked out". If I ever do play an Elite, I'd like to do it without totally embarrassing myself and messing up my teammates.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 866
# 23
11-02-2012, 02:48 PM
Randomly-assebled teams will have randomly-assigned performance. There is no magic bullet to fix that. Forcing people to jump through hoops to play Elite doesn't mean they'll be any more competent when they're there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 24
11-02-2012, 03:14 PM
yeah they might be still some fails but not so much as now ,or atleast to everyone need to play few times normal stf before unlocking elite would help to
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,619
# 25
11-02-2012, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
I don't see why Cryptic couldn't basically grandfather anyone who ever completed an Elite STF...
Because there is a difference of account and character, they can "grandfather" a character but the system is not going to account level.

Quote:
surely that would be possible.
Not without taking to account level.

Quote:
And then institute a game mechanic that unlocks the Elite version after you've done the corresponding STF on Normal.
And here we come to the issue that it seems people continue to ignore.

Just because *I* completed a Elite does not go beyond my *character* completing it, why its so hard to understand that by forcing people into normal you are forcing then doing then by *each* character they have?

At account level? maybe but how many things are there at account level? I dont know how the system functions at account level but since the only things that count are Veteran Rewards it seems the system in place does not see what the account accomplishes on the game itself.

Quote:
No, it wouldn't keep out relatively unskilled players who have already done it.
Then why its a issue? why trying to force PUGs to be Elite STF Raiders?

Quote:
But it would force guys like me who haven't to at least try to learn the ropes first.
Let me be blunt ... YOU WONT.

Elite works different that Normal in Space, you can ignore the 10% rule on Infected and still win, you can destroy a Shipyard in Cure and still win, you can ignore probes in KA and still win.

You cannot in Elite.

Ground is different, things are about the same and people dont like ground because its overall complicated ... CG is a mess in Normal because most people DONT know how it works, Infected is a horror in Ground because you never know if you can beat it with your ground until the boss room, there is no reason to force people into normal in Ground because it plays the same.

Quote:
And yes, I wouldn't mind being "locked out".
And would you mind being locked out with every single character you have?

Quote:
If I ever do play an Elite, I'd like to do it without totally embarrassing myself and messing up my teammates.
The only time you be "totally embarrassed" would be on normal by doing things you dont know, like the KAG room were if you have a team that never done it since that is not something players will know how to do the first time, Elite Space just requires a slightly different approach since you cannot deal with Nano Spheres spam in Elite and have to avoid it or in Cure you dont want Borg Raptors to spawn because it makes it tougher on the Defender so you dont kill the Cube after you cleared it and in KA you have Cubes spawning were they were none in Normal, they are not particular hard but since in KA its common to split into two groups with someone on probe duty its easy to get caught unaware and be killed because you further split and its you alone vs a Cube ... on Elite.

Forcing training camps solve nothing, especially when said training camps are with people running their alts and have to deal with Cure and Infected Ground that are a massive pain in the ass even with a good team.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,211
# 26
11-07-2012, 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
And here we come to the issue that it seems people continue to ignore.

Just because *I* completed a Elite does not go beyond my *character* completing it, why its so hard to understand that by forcing people into normal you are forcing then doing then by *each* character they have?

At account level? maybe but how many things are there at account level? I dont know how the system functions at account level but since the only things that count are Veteran Rewards it seems the system in place does not see what the account accomplishes on the game itself.
My comment is only in relation to Bort's statement that they wouldn't be able to grandfather anyone, not in regard to the merits of the idea that Elite STF's should be locked.

In regard to an account-wide unlock, that is a technical limitation that Cryptic might or might not be able to work around. In theory, they could unlock STF's at the account level in a similar way that they already unlock C-Store ships and Veteran Rewards at the account level.

But I get your point. It would stink to need to requalify every new alt and it would generally be preferable that it was an account wide unlock.

Except... Just because Player "X" knows how to complete an Elite STF with a Tac Captain in an escort, doesn't necessarily mean he knows how to do it with a Sci Captain in a Science vessel.

I'm not saying Player "X" should have to requalify... I'm just saying that I could see one reason why it might be a good thing. And I get that completing an STF on Normal doesn't mean someone's going to be able to hack it with an Elite.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 27
11-07-2012, 12:04 PM
If you're going to PuG don't complain about who you get.

Otherwise be social, join or make a channel to increase your odds of having better players in your pool.

Or, even better when you find someone who you've pugged w/and they do a good job friend them and invite them to queue together. Afterwhile you shouldn't even need channels since you'd have a pool of friends to coordinate with and you'll know they generally play when you play.

If someone wants trial by fire I have no problem w/them going straight to Elite.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 482
# 28
11-07-2012, 12:36 PM
i think content should be open to all players.

in real life you often get teamed up with someone that has the "qualifications" when they are actually incompetent, for example, an MBA.

or you may get teamed up with someone who does not have the qualifications, but they are actually quite competent.

i see plenty of level 50 VAs that are clueless. have you done a STF pug lately? it is full of them.
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Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 29
11-08-2012, 12:58 AM
No level/rep/whatever gate for Elite STF's please

The PUG's on Elite are sometimes bad but the PUG's on Normal are much worse -.-

And why should an experienced player be punished to play normal STF just because he is leveling a new toon?

My Klingon Tac was my 3th char and my second tac. I am now good enough as a player to run ISE and KASE with white MK10-MK11 gear and still do more damage than most of the other tacs in Normal STF's .

You can be a bad player with skill and no clue and still get MK12 Sets/Weapons just because the rest of your team is carrying you trough the STF's !
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 170
# 30
11-08-2012, 01:37 AM
I only play with PUGs, i never ever joined a fleet since the game went live. I never liked to be part of an organization, i am kinda rogue and scoundrel.

I have done countless Elite STFs with all kind of people. I have seen it all.

And i can tell this, things go wrong in a STF when:

- Someone decides to make things harder for the others on PURPOSE. ( pulling extra agro, going AFK in middle of battle, etc... )

- Lack of communication or impossibility to communicate ( youd be surprised of how many germans can't speak english and vice versa ).

- Lack of awareness. Player lack experience, don't know what target to priorize, mob placements and objective to be done. Easily FIXED with Communication most of the time.

- Totally Inept Player ( very rare case when a player really have no idea how to equip a Kit or how to even fire a weapon. To be honest, when that happens i assume it is a very young kid who is behind the screen who probably cant even comprehend the skill descriptions ) I cannot stress how RARE that even happened in ALL the STFs i ran.

- Finally Mistakes , Misfiring, Bad connection, Bad Luck. It happens. The best players sometimes fall in the soup in Infected Ground. It happens. The best players sometimes misclick and fire at wrong target, or destroy a node too fast because another player fired at same time than him.. It happens.


Other than that, i found out GEAR is pretty much irrelevant to complete Elite STF. You can do just fine with normal MK X gear. Gear can make you better and give you a better chance to complete Optional objectives within time. But again, i believe any experienced player that work well with a team can get by and do good enough with basic gear.

On ground, your Class is irrelevant. Sci, Tact or Engi can all do great in the hands of a player who can leverage them and synergize with teamates. Any Kit can be useful if you know how to use it and when.

In space, ships can make a difference for the optional, many favor DPS Escorts but again i have seem 5 slow cruisers do just fine so it is open to debate... I play with PUGs anyway, so i adapt and play with what we have.
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