Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
Yep, it's that time again for yet another cruiser thread. But I've been thinking about the complaints some players keep making and I want to add my own suggestion for a buff that I think Fed cruisers need.

Now reasonable people can disagree with my ideas, but even after the Borg set nerf and all the other changes that will make escorts slightly less tanky (and players will find new flavour of the month setups to make them more tanky again), I still say Fed cruisers need some love.

So here goes:

Changes affecting all ships

1. Increase the base damage of all beam arrays by 6%. For example, I believe advanced fleet beam arrays do 245 damage each, before modifiers. I'm suggesting that they be buffed to do 260 damage. I had considered suggesting a 10% buff, which would put those arrays at 270 damage each, but I assumed people would scream that it would be too high an increase, hence a compromise.

2. Increase all cruiser turn rates by one point. Just one. We really only need one. Then we'd have Assault and Star cruisers turning like Excelsiors, Excelsiors would turn almost as quickly as a Galor or Vor'cha without equalling them. And of course, Exploration cruisers and Odyssey cruisers (and the Bortasqu) would turn like Assault and Star cruisers do now. Fed cruisers would still feel like cruisers, they wouldn't step on KDF toes, nor would they suddenly become overpowered by this change. They would however, become slightly more nimble and slightly reduce that space whale feeling most Fed cruiser captains are sick of.


Changes affecting specific ships

1. Give the Fleet Star cruiser the kind of boff layout the Fleet Assault cruiser will have, if they ever put it back in the game:

Cmdr Engineering
Lt. Engineering
Lt. Cmdr Science
Ensign. Science
Lt. Universal

This one is no-brainer. Let's be honest here: three low level science powers are only good for tanking yourself. They are useless as offensive abilities, and thus the Fleet Star cruiser is just another superfluous tank ship, like the Assault cruiser is another superfluous combat ship which justified the creation of the Regent after so much rage at the Excelsior. Next to the Fleet Exploration cruiser, the Fleet Star cruiser is the other useless pile of garbage cruiser. It has nothing going for it compared to dedicated science ships or cruisers that do a better job in combat.

2. Give the Fleet Exploration cruiser a universal ensign. Yes, that argument again. If there's one thing this ship sorely needs, it's to be given at least one more officer who doesn't have to be an engineer. This is not an enormous change. This is not a gamebreaking change. But this is a Tier four Fleet ship we're talking about. It deserves to have something going for it to justify the cost of attaining it.

Do I have to invoke Wesley Crusher to justify this suggestion? Because I will. See that? Three bands on his uniform, representing all three departments. He is a universal ensign. Give this ship a universal ensign in kind.

3. Double the zen price of the Galaxy Dreadnought, give it a fourth tactical console, and give it two tactical lieutenants and a science ensign.

Honestly, this ship is never going to get a fleet version due to the phaser lance. Yet people still want it up to par with them. So do this as a compromise, but don't make its tactical boffs the same as the Regent or Excelsior. That would make other combat cruisers obsolete. Just make it better but different, and increase the cost because everyone will probably want one.

Last edited by fulleatherjacket; 11-03-2012 at 07:50 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,912
# 2
11-03-2012, 07:40 AM
I like these ideas although I don't think a 10% beam buff would hurt the game as it would apply to all ships using beams although 10 base damage is neither here nor there.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 3
11-03-2012, 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
I don't think a 10% beam buff would hurt the game as it would apply to all ships using beams although 10 base damage is neither here nor there.
I have no idea what the final numbers would be with maxed skills, a tactical captain with all buffs active, 125 weapon power and 4 or 5 +30% energy damage consoles. So I went for the conservative option.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,912
# 4
11-03-2012, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
I have no idea what the final numbers would be with maxed skills, a tactical captain with all buffs active, 125 weapon power and 4 or 5 +30% energy damage consoles. So I went for the conservative option.
At present with my tac based Excelsior I max out at about 2.5k so I'd estimate getting to 3-3.25 maybe with an extra 10% base... however it would increase the number of tac cruisers in game and would increase the effectiveness of most engineer based cruisers for the current content which is something a lot of people would appreciate
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,327
# 5
11-03-2012, 10:10 AM
I agree with all the changes you proposed (Except maybe how expensive the Gal-X would be).

Particularly though, the fleet Star Cruiser.

I have one of these myself, and certainly would love a different flavor of cruiser. In fact, I mentioned on a thread a few days ago about the Federation only needing one more 'flavor' to fill our their ranks completely: A Cruiser with a Lt. Cmdr science.

I'd love for that to happen.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 6
11-03-2012, 06:00 PM
Oh dear, now we have two cruiser threads running XD. The other one being in the Federation Gameplay subforum, started by yours truly lol.

Anyways, back on topic. Your suggestions are interesting, but I would propose that you give cruisers +2 instead of just +1. You are correct, only having 1 would be enough, but I would prefer 2, and then a +1 to KDF BCs, that would give everyone a nice boost without making escorts cry foul.

As for your proposed BOff changes, I have a counter-proposal. Instead of modifying the Fl. Star Cruiser, why not just go with the alternate, and GIVE US BACK OUR Fl. Assault Cruiser. I would pay ZEN, ZEN mind you, for the FSMs to get that ship. You guys can even quote me on that and hold me to it. Give us back the Imperial-Class Fleet Assault Cruiser. I love my sovy. It has handles quite well and can do a nice bit of slappage. The only problem is that it's a 9 console ship. I really wouldn't mind a

4/4/2 console cruiser with a

LtCmdr Tac
Ensign Tac
Cmdr Engi
Lt Engi
Lt Sci

BOff setup.

Also give it the same hull and shield mod as the Fl. Star Cruiser, and you're set.

As for the Galaxy-R change, all I have to say is... GOOD LORD PLEASE JUST DO IT ALREADY. -.- And while you're at it (not being sarcastic) give the Fl Tac Escort-R a uni ensign instead of that superfluous extra tac ensign.

As for the changes to the Galaxy-X, putting aside my dislike for that ship, I think the zen cost x2 might be a little over the top, but the minor changes to the consoles I can approve of. Maybe increase it's cost by 500 zen, a small 20% increase. As for the BOff changes, i agree, for a combat cruiser (yeah, it's probably the only one that's actually a COMBAT cruiser) it's still a little engi heavy.

That's my input.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 7
11-03-2012, 06:18 PM
I like the general idea overall except the boff
Layout,it's still a heal boat and a lot of cruiser
Skippers don't want another heal boat .

I would propose

Cmdr Uni
LT Cmdr Eng
LT Cmdr Sci
LT Tac

Consoles
3 Tac
5 Eng
2 Sci

This layout would allow a player to take a
Healboat
Crowd control ship
Firepower

Into what ever battle his or her team needed
Making it a true multi purpose ship I'n reality
And not I'n talk

Tac ships are still better at Dps
Sci is still better at crowd control

The ship is still slow and turns even slower
And it would sell BIG. $$$$$$$$
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 8
11-03-2012, 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
I like the general idea overall except the boff
Layout,it's still a heal boat and a lot of cruiser
Skippers don't want another heal boat .

I would propose

Cmdr Uni
LT Cmdr Eng
LT Cmdr Sci
LT Tac

Consoles
3 Tac
5 Eng
2 Sci

This layout would allow a player to take a
Healboat
Crowd control ship
Firepower

Into what ever battle his or her team needed
Making it a true multi purpose ship I'n reality
And not I'n talk

Tac ships are still better at Dps
Sci is still better at crowd control

The ship is still slow and turns even slower
And it would sell BIG. $$$$$$$$
I don't like what you proposed at all. Don't take this the wrong way, but there is no reason at all to have 5 engi consoles. Not with the way diminishing returns are in this game. The only thing I would maybe consider putting in that 5th slot would be an RCS console, but with the low turn rate, it's almost not worth it.

As for your propsed BOff layout... Sorry man, but no. I put the Cmdr Engi simply because it's still a cruiser. And it's a fleet cruiser at that. Having the Cmdr Engi is a requirement for that. EVERY T5 and Fleet Cruiser in the game has a Cmdr Engi. All of them, Starfleet and KDF. You cannot make a fleet cruiser without it. And two LtCmdr slots? What? That's too many high level powers. Especially with a universal Cmdr slot. Also you only have 4 BOff slots. It's a fleet ship. Give it 5.

Your BOff setup violates any sense of balance. I'm sorry, but no. And the console setup doesn't say assault cruiser to me. Too many engi slots. It reminds me of the Galaxy-R.

The console setup I proposed is a copy of the setup on a fleet tor'kaht, probably one of the best damage dealing BCs in the game. It has a damage dealing and tanky feel with the 4/4, but still says attack because of the only 2 sci.

And lastly, how is the setup I proposed too much healboat? Cmdr Engi + Lt Engi = 6 engi slots. That's not that bad. I can think of 6 engi powers I would use that would all be pretty effective and not be too redundant. Also the 2 sci powers would be good for support and self survival.

You have to remember what a cruiser is. It's still a support tank. Granted the AC and Tac cruisers are all better for damage output, which is why I put the LtCmdr Tac and Lt Tac. Combine those two and you can have a constant APB1 and TT1 cycling, which give you good damage output. Also that LtCmdr tac allows you to put a higher level power if you need it, like APO2 or TS3. However you still need to be able to tank and heal/support both yourself and your team. Hence the Cmdr & Lt engi, and the Lt sci. Balanced BOff setup, and a good ship overall. Tbh, it's actually better with BOff setup than the Odyssey, at least as powers go.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
# 9
11-03-2012, 06:40 PM
Your layout for the starcruiser is what many people including me asked for the Galaxy. At least if we turn that universal Lt into a tac Lt since it's gonna be a tac seat anyway for 99% of the playerbase.

Bit more manouverabilty couldn't hurt, either. I'd say this proposal would improve gaming experience for many players. Do it cryptic !
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,912
# 10
11-04-2012, 02:28 AM
I find the Excelsior BOFF layout to be pretty close to perfect with 1 small change in the form of a universal ensign and bam you have the perfect cruiser BOFF layout (in my opinion).

I would however suggest 4 eng, 3 sci and 4 tac consoles for it with the same turn rate, health etc the Excelsior has... I dunno perhaps that could be the fleet version of the ship (in the event they make one) I'd pay money (read "grind") for that

Last edited by adamkafei; 11-04-2012 at 02:29 AM. Reason: Proof read
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