Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
# 1 PvP Balance Idea(s)
11-04-2012, 04:07 PM
I have had a couple ideas with engineers.... For PvP.

Give an engineer a taunt ability to grab aggro or force the target to change target to the user of the ability. The target of the engineer is forced to swap target to the engineer for a small amount of time, say 5 secs, after 5 secs the target gets an immunity for 30 secs from all other taunts. The power would have a 45 sec or so cooldown.
This ability could be made into a BOFF skill or a seperate capt power, or a built in ability of all cruisers.

OR

Give an engineer the ability to tank for a group in pvp and pve... an ability to tranfer damage from a ally target to the engineer. Similar to Extend shields, but opperating in a different way. The engineer that uses this ability on an ally has 75% of there threat and 50% of there damage dealt to them transfered to the engineer that uses this ability. (This effect is already in-game with the mobius pet power, when the past copy is damaged that damage is transfered to you)
You could restrict the usage as such that the target of this power could not be affected by extend shields for balance. Build this power into EPS TRANSFER, or a seperate captn power.

OR

Give an Engineer a passive ability that scales with damage taken, the more damage an engineer takes the more damage the engineer deals. Equivelant to sensor analysis. Couple this with the threat generation in the skill tree, that would enable the engineer to do dps, and tank in pve/pvp. But it would not allow for the engineer to take the burst dps role from a tactical captn, instead only build on the preasure dps that it is designed to do. But based on incoming damage.

Let me know what you think of my ideas, I have been discussing these at length with my fleet mates in the 106TH fleet.

Twenty-Two.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,705
# 2
11-04-2012, 05:03 PM
There have been several discussions about Engineers... the taunt thing - personally (and I know it's common) - tends to be a Hell No! Taunts in PvE are a bad enough mechanic - there's no need to have that nonsense in PvP as well.

Damage transfer would be suicide.

And er, the Tacs may not want the Eng to have GDF.

I'll say what I've said in most of the Eng discussions.

Look at the Eng Ground Abilities. Where are the space equivalents? Oddly enough, the answer tends to be that anybody has them, you can buy them from the Z-Store, or either Sci or Tac has them.

If Eng actually had those abilities back... I believe it would make a world of difference.

Barrier Generator, Carrier (Pets, Drones, etc), Subsystem Targeting, Turrets, some kind of heavy CD alpha nuke, support platforms, boosted mines, etc, etc, etc...

...yeah, all the stuff that's in the store or given to somebody else.

It's bogus.

edit: It's bogus - as in what they gave to everybody else - not your ideas. Just wanted to make sure that was clear. I may roll Sci all but exclusively now, but that's how I get the majority of what should be the Eng abilities.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin

Last edited by virusdancer; 11-04-2012 at 05:29 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 173
# 3
11-04-2012, 05:11 PM
your 3rd idea is to give engineers go down fighting. one of the staples of tac powers. also one of the most over powered skills in the game
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 4
11-04-2012, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jovoloro View Post
Give an engineer the ability to tank for a group in pvp and pve... an ability to tranfer damage from a ally target to the engineer
Extend shields to share shield damage with the caster imo.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 95
# 5
11-04-2012, 06:05 PM
I think those are all great ideas unfortunettly i have seen so many in the past 3 years that never get looked at so good luck
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 79
# 6
11-04-2012, 06:24 PM
Break Everything would be easier than Fixing stuff
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Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
# 7
11-04-2012, 07:06 PM
The go down fighting is something a tac has and can use very well, I`m talking a passive but much smaller amount of damage buff for the engineer, all based on consistent incoming damage. they get no boost to damage output if you don`t shoot them, doesn`t matter what state there health is in.

The other comment made towards the damage transfer being suicide, no it wouldn`t be, just like extends shields, it would give engineers a reason to tank in pvp, all be it not an insane amount. A good example is the draw fire ability the tacs already have and don`t use. Give it to engineers work it into the damage/threat transfer ability and after so much damage it stops working. (early if nesscary).

I`m looking for ideas for the balance of class demands in pvp, right now engineers have limited viability group pvp, besides being cruiser healers, let them tank/taunt like they should.

I believe engineers should be tanking/aggro machines, in pve as they are and in pvp which they are not at the moment. I know I shouldn`t use wow as an example but in this case I can`t think of anything else, warriors have or had an ability to take damage in place of someone else, paladins had it too when they tanked, it would meld well with the class in sto as it is.

Last edited by jovoloro; 11-04-2012 at 07:13 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 8
11-04-2012, 08:31 PM
Or go with some of the ideas given in the variios cruiser and engineer threads.
Like heavy beam arrays, new Tac boff abilities for beams, even a turn rate enertia buff.

All things that and egineer can use to increase tjier combat effectivenessn using thier existing captains powers and the new boff abilities and weapons.

It adds to the game without just specifically buffing just cruisers or engineers
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,705
# 9
11-04-2012, 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jovoloro View Post
I believe engineers should be tanking/aggro machines
Why?

Ground Abilities:
Reroute Power to Shields - sure, it buffs their shields.
Cover Shield - is a support ability.
Support Drone Fab - support ability.
Orbital Strike - assault/damage ability (should be Tac)
Engineering Proficiency - support ability.

BOFF Ground:
Chron Mines - damage/snare.
Quick Fix - buff/cleanse/repair...support.
Shield Recharge - heal.
Weapons Malfunction - debuff.
Reroute Power to Shields - same as noted above.
Shield Generator Fab - buff/heal.
Turret Fab - DPS pet.
Cover Shield - same as noted above.
Equipment Diagnostics - cleanse/buff.
Medical Generator Fab - buff/heal.
Quantum Mortar Fab - DPS pet.
Combat Supply - consumable generation.
Fuse Armor - debuff.
Support Drone Fab - same as noted above.

BOFF Space:
Emergency Power to X - self subsystem buff.
Engineering Team - heal/cleanse.
Aux to Bat - self power buff.
Aux to Damp - self buff.
Aux to Structural - buff/heal.
Boarding Party - special damage/disable.
Directed Energy Mod - shield pen buff.
Extend Shields - target heal/buff.
Reverse Shield Polarity - damage to shield conversion.
Aceton Beam - debuff/DoT.
Eject Warp Plasma - snare/DoT.

So exactly where are you seeing the Engineer as the tanking/aggro machines?

RSF, MW, NI, RSP, EPtS... and pretty much just in space? That's the case for them being the tanks?

So pretty much ignore everything that screams that an Engineer is the Support Career - that they're the ones that keep others alive, fix what the enemy's trying to break, help break the enemy, bring the toys, etc, etc, etc...?

Tac - DPS
Eng - Defensive Support/Offensive Support
Sci - Offensive Support/Defensive Support

The Eng Captain space abilities are borked compared to Tac and Sci. Tac Ground/Space matches the best - then Sci - with Eng being a joke.

There are plenty of ways to improve Engineers so that they're thought of as more than just healers in PvP - without making them something or trying to introduce the artificial Trinity into PvP.

Neither Tac nor Sci would be happy with that... so thread after thread, it tends to fall on deaf ears.

edit: For example, Subsystem Targeting on a Sci ship. Really? Who's going to be more familiar with how a starship works... the guy that works on them or... oh yeah...

There's a bit of this here and there... stuff that doesn't make sense.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin

Last edited by virusdancer; 11-04-2012 at 08:44 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 10
11-04-2012, 10:05 PM
I think the better name for this thread would be how to improve engineers. The title is "a little" misleading.
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