Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 11
11-05-2012, 10:40 AM
Well, one nice trick can be to keep two power presets: one with power split between engines and shields, and one that maxes out aux first and dumps the rest into engines. Use the latter when you're cloaked and the former when you're decloaked/escaping.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,114
# 12
11-05-2012, 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Actually, the two tric mines have a shared cooldown, and the Bio-neural and Tric torpedo have a cooldown, but the four do not share cooldown between each other (mines and torps). I have noticed that I can fire my Bio-neural and a Chroniton torpedo with each other though.

By Tractor Beam, do you mean me tractoring another, or being tractored? It's yes for both though. I find it useful for holding someone down, be it for them to get tric mined, or keeping them from moving for someone else.

I keep most of my lobi on one toon, expensive enough getting things as is.

Even so, my thought on the stealth is that if I am gonna be seen when I fire off abilities and torps, ok. But when I do, I wanna get back into such a strong stealth that I can't be found, even if I was sitting still. If I get caught by a de-cloak ability, that is my fault to have been caught in the first place.
Unless they've changed something, I'm positive I dropped a tricobalt mine and it put my bio-neural on 30 second cooldown. Just like when I fired a bio-neural warhead and it put my aft tricobalt torpedo on 30 second cooldown (and vice versa).

Bio-neural is a tricobalt type (right click on the torpedo and go to Info). Chronitons are chronitons.

While you are holding your target in place with tractor beams, you can now be targeted for 15 seconds while you're cloak is on cooldown. Also, you lose the 15% damage buff from decloaking after 5 seconds, so you're torpedoes are doing less. Usually, with my fore weapon setup, I can fire off all of my fore weapons before the 5 seconds are up, and while I'm auto-cloaking, I'm waiting on torpedo cooldowns anyways.

I like the Rule 62 console. Tachyokinetic Converter is also nice, but I don't really need the turn rate buff (cloaked, my B'rel's turn rate is already 52+).

Like I had said before, with 6 skill points into Stealth, and 118 auxiliary power, I cannot be detected at 0km. Having Stealth consoles is overkill and wastes console space (for me at least).
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,114
# 13
11-05-2012, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
Well, one nice trick can be to keep two power presets: one with power split between engines and shields, and one that maxes out aux first and dumps the rest into engines. Use the latter when you're cloaked and the former when you're decloaked/escaping.
I don't find shields particularly useful for a B'rel torpedo boat. If I'm decloaked, I usually just hit evasive maneuvers and Jam Sensors to get away.

Yeah, Jam Sensors isn't helpful to the team, but you really have to pick and choose abilities that isn't going to reveal you when you don't want it to.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 14
11-05-2012, 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Last night I posted a thread in the PvP area about flying around in Ker'rat in my B'rel, I thought I'd post my build.

To be totally honest, I know it ain't very good.

To start, science toon is in this.

Equipment:

Shield/engine/deflector: Borg Set (If I get lucky before season 7 hits, I will put at least two-piece Honor Guard space on this, for the torpedo and aux bonus)

Consoles:
Tac: 3 Mk XII blue TCD Subspace Infusers
Sci: 3 Mk XII blue Stealth Modules
Enginer: 3 Mk XI blue Neutronium Alloys, sometimes switched with Monotanium, and also sometimes switch in an Impulse Burst console)

Weapons:

Fore: 2 Chroniton Torp launchers, Tric torpedo launcher, Bio Neural Warhead
Aft: 2 Tric mine launchers

Unfortunately...all those weapons are Mk XI greens. I would have better, but one...no money atm, and two I accidently liquidated all of this toon's STF assets for dil, and didn't want to.

BOFF set-up:

Cmdr as a tac: TT 1, CRF 1, torp spread 3, Dispersal pattern beta 3
Lt. Cmdr tac: TT 1, ATB 1, THY 3
Lt sci: Tractor Beam 1, Sci team 2
Lt. Engineer: Eng team 1, Aux to structural 1

So yeah...I know that's not good at all. I am gonna respec this toon soon, since the previous ship it was in, was a Vo'quv. I will be putting points into Stealth and all Projectile abilities at least.

I'd just like to say this will be almost purely for PvP in Ker'rat, staying cloaked as much as possible, and firing off loads of torpedoes and mines.
I'll ignore that you have cannon rapid fire in a ship with no cannons (and you shouldnt use energy weapons with a b'rel anyway)

My suggestions/observations:

Tricobalt and Bioneural is a poor choice. They share timers. Using this combo makes your b'rel lose the firepower of one weapon slot.

Try: Chroniton x2, bioneural, harghpeng.

I understand why you use chronitons..slows the target down for the mines to hit... but in practical terms the effect of the chroniton slow wears off very quickly and in most cases your mines will not benefit from this. Worse yet, the target ship seeing himself slowed and mines dropped near him, will target the mines or use fire at will or cannon spread to take them out.

This is why I strongly suggest changing your chronitons for plasma torpedoes.

Try this: 2x plasma torpedo, bioneural torp, breen cluster.

Using the Reman set 2 piece and high yield 3 & high yield 2 you launch 2 heavy plasma torps that fly fast and are hard to shoot down... and with the bioneural and breen cluster flying to target at the same time you give the target ship an eyeful of incoming pain....

...which they tend to target first...

..and ignore or miss the REAL damage dealing tricobalt mines about to slap them back to the respawn point.

LT stations:

As a bird of prey you simply cannot afford to stay visible and targetable. Tractor beam keeps you uncloaked and thats not good at all. Heal-wise you lack the ability to survive the real bird of prey killers: torpedoes that come after you after you cloak and DOT attacks.

Instant heals like the ones you use may be good for taking one hit but the next one takes you out.

You also have no means of defending yourself against a much more powerful target if they're on to you.

I suggest:

LT Sci: Jam Sensors 1, Scramble Sensors 1
LT Sci (yes, another): Polarize Hull 1, Hazard emitter 2

What this does: Jam sensors allows you to decloak, jam them, fire your ordenance and mines and cloak back before they can target you. The jam is not broken until the target gets hit once or twice... and your heavy torpedoes as outlined above take just about that same amount of time.

If you are tractored you can polarize hull to break off or jam/scramble the ship that tractors you..it will lose the lock.

Hazard emitters are amazing. They will remove any damage over time effects, heal your ship hull for nearly three times your entire hull HP...and if you have 3 or 4 torpedoes coming your way while you're cloaked...that thing heals you while you're cloaked even as you get hit. You literally have to be hit by a high yield attack while cloaked to not survive it with hazard on.

Scramble sensors are also excellent to use when dumping mines in the middle of a fight. The splash animation hides the mine drop&spreadout animation....not to mention it breaks the lock of any enemy ship inside its area effect and that is GREAT when you're fighting in a cloud of enemies and friendlies.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 15
11-05-2012, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
Well, one nice trick can be to keep two power presets: one with power split between engines and shields, and one that maxes out aux first and dumps the rest into engines. Use the latter when you're cloaked and the former when you're decloaked/escaping.
Actually, you should not even be bothering with shield power in a b'rel. You dont regenerate them while cloaked and you REALLY dont want to be uncloaked when anything that can shoot is anywhere near you.

I put 80 power to engine and the rest to AUX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Unless they've changed something, I'm positive I dropped a tricobalt mine and it put my bio-neural on 30 second cooldown. Just like when I fired a bio-neural warhead and it put my aft tricobalt torpedo on 30 second cooldown (and vice versa).
This was changed 2 patches ago. Tricobalt based torpedoes do not trigger timer on the tricobalt mines and viceversa.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,114
# 16
11-05-2012, 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
This was changed 2 patches ago. Tricobalt based torpedoes do not trigger timer on the tricobalt mines and viceversa.
Good to know. Though, I think I'll stick with a chroniton and plasma torpedo in the aft.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 17
11-05-2012, 02:59 PM
If its for damage you need to understand the damage multipliers the torpedoes use.

Quantums have the highest modifier. About 650% at HY3
Photons have 2nd highest at about 480% at HY3

All other torpedoes except transphasics and chronitons have a 350% bonus

Transphasics and Chronitons have a mere 200% bonus.

By using chronitons you are trading damage output for a mere short term slow effect.

Tricobalts have unique mechanics for their high yield and spread. the high yield matches heavy plasma (mostly) and spread simply fires x tricobalts based on x number of ships in the firing arc and based on the tier of torpedo spread used.

Plasma heavy torpedoes on the other hand have an interesting mechanic. They get a 700% damage bonus that decreases over distance the heavy plasma flies. The dot of the plasma also gets a large boost in damage...and heavy plasma dots STACK.

The downside is the heavy plasma is SLOW and has poor 'hitpoints' so it dies to anything.

The reman 2 piece set solves all that. The heavy plasma flies fast, is hard to hit and has more hitpoints. Most importantly: it does not lose damage over distance.

Using heavy plasma with the reman set allows you to use a rather nifty trick in the b'rel:

At 10km fire both heavy plasma. Autocloak. If you have timed your high yields and are using the Tac Capt timer reduction ability you can fire two more heavy plasma before the first pair of heavy plasma hits...and you fire this second volley along with your breen and bioneural torpedo...and your mines under 5km range.

Avg dmg of a heavy plasma under high yield 2 under atk ptrn omega 1 is about 50k. The dot is about 500 per tick.

...so you practically deliver 200k~ dmg with plasma alone, stack 2k/tick of dot on target and add bioneural's ~80k and breen's ~30k damage before the quad tricobalts race in for the glorious finish.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,114
# 18
11-05-2012, 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
If its for damage you need to understand the damage multipliers the torpedoes use.

Quantums have the highest modifier. About 650% at HY3
Photons have 2nd highest at about 480% at HY3

All other torpedoes except transphasics and chronitons have a 350% bonus

Transphasics and Chronitons have a mere 200% bonus.

By using chronitons you are trading damage output for a mere short term slow effect.

Tricobalts have unique mechanics for their high yield and spread. the high yield matches heavy plasma (mostly) and spread simply fires x tricobalts based on x number of ships in the firing arc and based on the tier of torpedo spread used.

Plasma heavy torpedoes on the other hand have an interesting mechanic. They get a 700% damage bonus that decreases over distance the heavy plasma flies. The dot of the plasma also gets a large boost in damage...and heavy plasma dots STACK.

The downside is the heavy plasma is SLOW and has poor 'hitpoints' so it dies to anything.

The reman 2 piece set solves all that. The heavy plasma flies fast, is hard to hit and has more hitpoints. Most importantly: it does not lose damage over distance.

Using heavy plasma with the reman set allows you to use a rather nifty trick in the b'rel:

At 10km fire both heavy plasma. Autocloak. If you have timed your high yields and are using the Tac Capt timer reduction ability you can fire two more heavy plasma before the first pair of heavy plasma hits...and you fire this second volley along with your breen and bioneural torpedo...and your mines under 5km range.

Avg dmg of a heavy plasma under high yield 2 under atk ptrn omega 1 is about 50k. The dot is about 500 per tick.

...so you practically deliver 200k~ dmg with plasma alone, stack 2k/tick of dot on target and add bioneural's ~80k and breen's ~30k damage before the quad tricobalts race in for the glorious finish.
I only use the chroniton with T:S1 at initial start in Ker'rat. I try to get out of the Fed ball as quickly as possible, while affecting their speed/turn rate. Beyond that, I only turn to fire when I'm waiting on my fore torpedoes to come off cooldown.

I only use the Plasma torpedo for the plasma burn to stack on my Hargh'Peng.

On my fore, I use Quantum, Bio-Neural, Breen Cluster, and Hargh'Peng, in that order. The only ability that works with my HY3 is the Quantums, and, according to your information, doesn't lose damage over distance?

In any case, I use the Quantum torpedoes to damage the shields enough for the Bio-Neural and Breen Cluster to do more hull damage. Hargh'Peng is for additional damage and DOT.

It works very well.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,748
# 19
11-05-2012, 09:43 PM
Ok, well, I did make some changes to my B'rel, not very science heavy still, but mostly wanted to upgrade the weapons, and at the time, I hadn't read Cmdrskyfaller's first post higher in the page.

So, here's the changes I made, at least for now:

BOFFs: No more cannon ability, it's a Dispersal Pattern Beta 1 atm. The Lt. slots are E-power to shields 1 and Aux to structural 1, along with Tractor Beam 1 and HE 2.

Most of the weapons were upgraded, The Tric mines both have CrtDx3, the Chronitons both have Acc and a couple other modifiers I can't remember atm, the tric torpedo...I can't remember atm. All of them though are Mk XI very rares, plus the Bio Neural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
I'll ignore that you have cannon rapid fire in a ship with no cannons (and you shouldnt use energy weapons with a b'rel anyway)

My suggestions/observations:

Tricobalt and Bioneural is a poor choice. They share timers. Using this combo makes your b'rel lose the firepower of one weapon slot.

Try: Chroniton x2, bioneural, harghpeng.

I understand why you use chronitons..slows the target down for the mines to hit... but in practical terms the effect of the chroniton slow wears off very quickly and in most cases your mines will not benefit from this. Worse yet, the target ship seeing himself slowed and mines dropped near him, will target the mines or use fire at will or cannon spread to take them out.

This is why I strongly suggest changing your chronitons for plasma torpedoes.

Try this: 2x plasma torpedo, bioneural torp, breen cluster.

Using the Reman set 2 piece and high yield 3 & high yield 2 you launch 2 heavy plasma torps that fly fast and are hard to shoot down... and with the bioneural and breen cluster flying to target at the same time you give the target ship an eyeful of incoming pain....

...which they tend to target first...

..and ignore or miss the REAL damage dealing tricobalt mines about to slap them back to the respawn point.

LT stations:

As a bird of prey you simply cannot afford to stay visible and targetable. Tractor beam keeps you uncloaked and thats not good at all. Heal-wise you lack the ability to survive the real bird of prey killers: torpedoes that come after you after you cloak and DOT attacks.

Instant heals like the ones you use may be good for taking one hit but the next one takes you out.

You also have no means of defending yourself against a much more powerful target if they're on to you.

I suggest:

LT Sci: Jam Sensors 1, Scramble Sensors 1
LT Sci (yes, another): Polarize Hull 1, Hazard emitter 2

What this does: Jam sensors allows you to decloak, jam them, fire your ordenance and mines and cloak back before they can target you. The jam is not broken until the target gets hit once or twice... and your heavy torpedoes as outlined above take just about that same amount of time.

If you are tractored you can polarize hull to break off or jam/scramble the ship that tractors you..it will lose the lock.

Hazard emitters are amazing. They will remove any damage over time effects, heal your ship hull for nearly three times your entire hull HP...and if you have 3 or 4 torpedoes coming your way while you're cloaked...that thing heals you while you're cloaked even as you get hit. You literally have to be hit by a high yield attack while cloaked to not survive it with hazard on.

Scramble sensors are also excellent to use when dumping mines in the middle of a fight. The splash animation hides the mine drop&spreadout animation....not to mention it breaks the lock of any enemy ship inside its area effect and that is GREAT when you're fighting in a cloud of enemies and friendlies.
I did find it very annoying, waiting 15 seconds between torp shots, be it for my Bio neural, or my tric torp when I fired the opposite one. I'll ditch the Tric torp, I won't miss it.

But I am interested in your Reman set idea. I don't have it (don't like doing the Vault) on this toon, but when season 7 hits, I will look into it more. For now, I will still probably look at getting the Honor guard space set, at least as a different choice to go with, even if I don't use it. This is mostly for the torpedo damage bonus and aux power buff.

But all those targettable torpedoes (and ones not sharing long cooldowns at that) does mean they will focus on those to start usually. Plus the Jam and Scrambled sensors means they might waste a science team or something to remove em, still meaning that they are focused on something else first, and all the better to get hammered by the real damage dealers.

Tractor beam is going though, too much of a liability, not enough of an asset. I learned that way too well earlier in Ker'rat. It could help, but if someone used that time to tractor me or anything, I was as good as gone. So that's going, and I certainly shall get a PH in it's place.

I will also probably be taking off the Stealth consoles. I respeced more properly today as well, focusing on putting points into Stealth, along with projectile weapons. Any other good recommendations for sci consoles?

I will be looking more into the Reman set, until I get more ECs and season 7 hits, then I will probably get it, and some plasma torpedoes.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,114
# 20
11-06-2012, 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
I will also probably be taking off the Stealth consoles. I respeced more properly today as well, focusing on putting points into Stealth, along with projectile weapons. Any other good recommendations for sci consoles?
I just use the 2 set KHG for the 25% torpedo bonus.

The only Sci console I have is the Flow Capcitors, for boosting my Tachyon Beam 3 and Aceton Assimilators.

My console layout is:
1) Eng = Neutronium Alloy x2, Assimilated Module
2) Sci = Flow Capacitors, Rule 62, Aceton Assimilators
3) Tact = Warhead Yield Chamber x3
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