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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,198
# 31
11-07-2012, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremenoob1 View Post
As far as the safe zone goes, that is a good idea, however there should be a "timer" on it as well since players could/would just sit there for the duration of the game.

Don't see how they could put a "safe zone" on any kind of a timer, seeing as how anybody who goes kaboom is going to reappear there at any given time and getting killed by somebody else's "splash" damage just as you're respawning would truly be frustrating.

If some "chicken" decides to sit on a Spawn point for the entire game, so what? He's not scoring any kills, either, and he's only hurting his own side.

If that's an issue, then making respawned players temporarily untargetable would be better... but that won't be any defense against AoE damage and the like. I like safe zones better... sure they aren't realistic, but it's better than being camped.

A safe zone would give respawning players a chance to go full impulse, hit their buffs, and at least try to escape the zone before anyone can gank them. It would prevent junk like laying Tric mines next to the spawn point. Then they'd have a fighting chance.

That's all anybody who PvP's in good faith is asking for: a fighting chance.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 32
11-07-2012, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Don't see how they could put a "safe zone" on any kind of a timer, seeing as how anybody who goes kaboom is going to reappear there at any given time and getting killed by somebody else's "splash" damage just as you're respawning would truly be frustrating.

If some "chicken" decides to sit on a Spawn point for the entire game, so what? He's not scoring any kills, either, and he's only hurting his own side.

If that's an issue, then making respawned players temporarily untargetable would be better... but that won't be any defense against AoE damage and the like. I like safe zones better... sure they aren't realistic, but it's better than being camped.

A safe zone would give respawning players a chance to go full impulse, hit their buffs, and at least try to escape the zone before anyone can gank them. It would prevent junk like laying Tric mines next to the spawn point. Then they'd have a fighting chance.

That's all anybody who PvP's in good faith is asking for: a fighting chance.
I'd rather they change "respawn" to "warp in" and "beam in" for space and ground. Then have an area of the mini map where the player chooses where they can "warp in" or "beam in". It would get rid of the sillyness of respawning from an RP point of view and allow players enough flexability to avoid easy spawn camps.

In future maps (I know ...) they could have territory control which influences where you can warp/beam in etc.

For how things currently are in Arena, I suggest Feds move away from the spawn point ASAP, but not toward the middle of the map. This buys you time to co-ordinate since KDF will have to find you and may stretch out KDF pursuers depending on what ships/engines they have on their side.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 33
11-07-2012, 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starwrathforever View Post
Roach will never admit to be an evil Klingun and take the side of the bad guys!
I am not an evil Klingon. Just a Klingon.

The Evil was a title given to us by the feds becuase that which confounds or upsets them is evil evidently.

There is no true evil in this game. Thankfully.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 34
11-07-2012, 01:16 PM
Update just ran 3 pug KvF arenas, feds never moved more than 20km from their own spawn and some even ran toward their spawn putting their respawning allies in fire. Seriously, how hard is it to Full impulse away from the start of the match? I even waited 15 seconds after making it to the Feds still basically @ their intial spawn and they made no effort to move.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,418
# 35
11-07-2012, 01:19 PM
This is Star Trek...the Klinguns are always the bad guys and in this game very often the KDF players are evil...
K D F - Killing Disadvantaged Feds
K D F - The evul way to play Sto

Adm. Marcus orders: Punish the evul Klinguns! Punish the evul HOBOs! And nuclearize Qo'nos once and for all!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,777
# 36
11-07-2012, 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Update just ran 3 pug KvF arenas, feds never moved more than 20km from their own spawn and some even ran toward their spawn putting their respawning allies in fire. Seriously, how hard is it to Full impulse away from the start of the match? I even waited 15 seconds after making it to the Feds still basically @ their intial spawn and they made no effort to move.
If you were to do a random anonymous poll, you might find the following:

Queue FvF to fight.
Queue FvK to get the daily over and done with as fast as possible.

They'll queue FvK the same way they would queue Ker'rat.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 37
11-07-2012, 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
If you were to do a random anonymous poll, you might find the following:

Queue FvF to fight.
Queue FvK to get the daily over and done with as fast as possible.

They'll queue FvK the same way they would queue Ker'rat.
That's fine if there weren't inturn complaints on spawn camping. The vast majority of time I see it is when Feds won't make the effort to move from their spawns.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,777
# 38
11-07-2012, 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
That's fine if there weren't inturn complaints on spawn camping. The vast majority of time I see it is when Feds won't make the effort to move from their spawns.
I'm not even sure where to begin with how wrong that is.

I'll start with this:

Person A that is complaining about spawn camping is not necessarily Person B that has either realized it is generally pointless in FvK or Person C that's just there for a hopefully quick loss for Dil.

Not everybody's the same.

So it makes sense that there will be complaints about it while there are also be people hoping that it happens.

Then there's this:

Person B did not start off that way. Heck, even with that - there will be Person BA and Person BC. Person BA will likely be complaining not only about the spawn camping, but they will also be complaining about AA/ASD/etc. Person BC has shifted more toward what Person C thinks - they didn't start out like Person C, but they're slipping toward what Person C is like.

Then there's this:

You asked why they can't Full Impulse away? Well, if they're in combat as soon as they respawn... they can't.

*****

As for the overall discussion, I think multiple spawn points would work better than a safe zone.

Say there are three spawn points: X, Y, & Z. At base, there's a 33% chance of respawning at any of the three points.

If there is an enemy at X, then the chance to respawn there is reduced while the chance to respawn at Y or Z is increased.

If there is a single enemy at X, Y, & Z - the 33% chance would remain, but it would be for the group rather than the individual. The single camper would be faced with multiple enemies.

If there were two enemies at X, but only one or none at Y or Z - it would work along the lines of there being a single enemy or none at a respawn - everybody would either respawn at the empty respawn or would respawn to overwhelm the camper.

The scenarios would basically work out to favor the spawning players - they're either overwhelming a small camp or they're spawning where there is no camp.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 39
11-07-2012, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I'm not even sure where to begin with how wrong that is.

I'll start with this:

Person A that is complaining about spawn camping is not necessarily Person B that has either realized it is generally pointless in FvK or Person C that's just there for a hopefully quick loss for Dil.

Not everybody's the same.

So it makes sense that there will be complaints about it while there are also be people hoping that it happens.

Then there's this:

Person B did not start off that way. Heck, even with that - there will be Person BA and Person BC. Person BA will likely be complaining not only about the spawn camping, but they will also be complaining about AA/ASD/etc. Person BC has shifted more toward what Person C thinks - they didn't start out like Person C, but they're slipping toward what Person C is like.

Then there's this:

You asked why they can't Full Impulse away? Well, if they're in combat as soon as they respawn... they can't.

*****

As for the overall discussion, I think multiple spawn points would work better than a safe zone.

Say there are three spawn points: X, Y, & Z. At base, there's a 33% chance of respawning at any of the three points.

If there is an enemy at X, then the chance to respawn there is reduced while the chance to respawn at Y or Z is increased.

If there is a single enemy at X, Y, & Z - the 33% chance would remain, but it would be for the group rather than the individual. The single camper would be faced with multiple enemies.

If there were two enemies at X, but only one or none at Y or Z - it would work along the lines of there being a single enemy or none at a respawn - everybody would either respawn at the empty respawn or would respawn to overwhelm the camper.

The scenarios would basically work out to favor the spawning players - they're either overwhelming a small camp or they're spawning where there is no camp.
I'm not talking about 1 or 2 players not moving, I'm talking about all of them. I was refering to full impulse at the begining of a match, which isn't hard. Also, I've given numerous detailed ways to escape a camp.

Safe zone would be abused as people would just run to them like they try to in C&H, accept it would actually save them unlike C&H. Seriously, if people don't make the effort even after advise has been given how to deal w/it, it's on them.

Then number of actually abusive spawn camps in the queues is very low compared to the number of complaints regarding them and the number of times it's the player not understanding if they don't move from their spawn at the start they're the problem not the "campers".
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,777
# 40
11-07-2012, 02:59 PM
I've never seen a group not move away from the spawn at the start. Sure, there's the rare instance of the one guy that doesn't move. I drop him on my ignore list. When I see it happening on the other team, I actually apologize to them that they were a man down at the end.

Apparently I'm not in your matches and you're not in my matches. It doesn't mean that what the other is experiencing is wrong.

It's the gist of what I'm saying. We're not in every single match to witness what's going on in every single one.

So there are going to be the folks that do not understand the complaints. So there are going to be the folks that continue to make the complaints. It's not all the same; and it's sheer folly to assume that it is...

On the other hand, I've seen multiple C&H AA/ASD/AMS/Theta/etc/etc/etc camps.

Both C&H and even Ker'rat, should have something more akin to Arena when it comes to the respawn - more than one. Maybe the logic I suggested is too much work; but even starting with multiple respawn points would go a long way to resolving the issue.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
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