Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,127
# 51
11-07-2012, 02:51 PM
I'm going to call a bit of BS on how busy the queues are. When levelling an alt I sat in the SB24 queue for hours completely forgetting about it multiple times during the weekend no less.

If you try to queue up for the less popular fleet actions you wait a very very long time, being limited to only 3 queues on tribble means you simply can't get to what you want to do. Mine Trap just doesn't run because you can choose between 3 pretty long queues there or a queue that will take multiple hours and still never launch.. its just not right.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 68
# 52
11-07-2012, 02:56 PM
I'll miss the queue number display. Hated being the first one in the queue because it was a high chance to join a failed optional run.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 53
11-07-2012, 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
The reason we decided to remove the number of players displayed in the queue is because the information being reported was inaccurate. It would often times report a false number of players queued for individual events.
This may be true, but it was still accurate enough to be extremely valuable. The ideal for all of us is that you simply do this with the box you have:

~x/5

Where x is the number given by the current system. That still leaves the number of players required in there, and it acknowledges the fact that the number may not be accurate, but it gives us all some idea about what to expect when we queue. Personally, I'll behave somewhat differently if I'm joining a queue that says it's almost full than if I'm joining one that hasn't been moving and has few players in it.

One last thing: if you want people to play the 20 person missions more, you need to find a way that we can see the full 20 person group as our team, not just some random 5. A big part of the problem with them right now is that they are extremely difficult to coordinate and basically impossible to properly support your groupmates in.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 760
# 54
11-07-2012, 04:08 PM
I like the new pretty queue layout. It did need the spruce up.


However I have to agree with needing the queued player numbers back.

KDF side it can be hours before the 20 man fleet action gets the minimum 15 players required to play it. If I don't know how many are queued I'd be simply wasting my time waiting to play it. Or I could miss the one time every play session when there's enough to start it and jump in the queue myself.

Currently, if there's 5 queued I can go do an STF or other fleet action until there's more waiting. Or if I see a fleet event almost filled I jump in, cause apart from cross faction queues KDF specific ones take a lot longer to fill up. So knowing when one is almost full is very important to me not wasting my play time.

The number doesn't have to be completely accurate but it is a great indicator of how long you will be waiting to get into an event. And to be honest they're accurate enough currently.

This new system gives you no feedback at all about how much time you could be wasting just waiting for others to queue.

I seriously hope Cryptic can revisit their logic for removal of this indicator.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 55
11-07-2012, 04:16 PM
New PvE menu but still old UI which eats more resources than the game in backround.The game needs a new UI not a new design for old UI.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,796
# 56
11-07-2012, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
The team has been reading posts about this change in the Tribble forums and is taking the feedback into consideration

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
And given that Feedback was seen when the queues first rolled out two weeks ago; and the fact that numerous Devs (and Brandon in this post) have commented that they're 'aware' of said feedback; and we've had 3 Tribble patches for S7 so far, and the new queue system is still as it was during the initial S7 rollout on Tribble...

i'd say the feedback has been 'considered' and 'rejected'.

Which IMO is both disappointing and unfortunate.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 82
# 57
11-07-2012, 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
But it was, kinda. Let me explain.

The reason we decided to remove the number of players displayed in the queue is because the information being reported was inaccurate. It would often times report a false number of players queued for individual events. In reality there are thousands of game servers across the shard constantly running all the different events, but the previous column in the queue UI was under-and-over representing the number of players. The information being reported was in most cases only a small slice of how many people were in each queue.

We've removed this column for Season 7 because we do not feel it was reporting queue population properly and was giving false positives, when in fact most events are busy around the clock. Other popular MMO games do not display population in queues and manage just fine, so we are going to leave this column out for the S7 launch and see how it goes under a full population of users.

As we move forward, if it turns into a bigger issue, we will investigate ways in which we can show players how "hot" some queues are, but this will require the tech wizards to find a way to report on the number of players in queues more accurately so that we can display the proper information.

We appreciate that it feels "weird" now on Tribble (where there are only a few hundred players playing at any given moment), but we ask that you wait and see how it goes under full Holodeck load. Our expectation is that players will still be able to get into queues as quickly as they could prior to S7.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura
This may be true, but it was still accurate enough to be extremely valuable. The ideal for all of us is that you simply do this with the box you have:

~x/5

Where x is the number given by the current system. That still leaves the number of players required in there, and it acknowledges the fact that the number may not be accurate, but it gives us all some idea about what to expect when we queue. Personally, I'll behave somewhat differently if I'm joining a queue that says it's almost full than if I'm joining one that hasn't been moving and has few players in it.

One last thing: if you want people to play the 20 person missions more, you need to find a way that we can see the full 20 person group as our team, not just some random 5. A big part of the problem with them right now is that they are extremely difficult to coordinate and basically impossible to properly support your groupmates in.
I find myself missing the player count. It served as a semi-accurate waiting line for us by giving us an idea of how long we'd be waiting and allowing us to jump into a queue that has a shorter line so we can get in faster.

With that removed we have this situation where we don't have any clue how many people are "waiting in line". We could join a queue and be waiting for half an hour before it pops in the new display. And all because we don't know how many people are in line for it.

So I find myself agreeing with Jaden there. It was better when the Players column was displaying "12" players for a popular queue (like Infected Space Elite) and updating as teams joined a map or left the line for something else. The only thing I'd suggest is this kind of display: 14 (5 min)

This way we can see that 14 people are "waiting in line" and the map is designed for teams of 5. So of those 14 people, the first 10 will end up in 2 separate instances and the final 4 need just one more player before they can start their own.

The only problem with this is that "queued teams" (premades that didn't make a private queue) would skew this format somewhat. Three people would be queued up as a team while four other random players (also teamed) would be in line in front of them, thus leaving the queue display saying "7 (5 min)" for a short moment and holding things up until those two teams get the missing players they needed to start the instance. In those cases they should be using private queues rather than public queues.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,796
# 58
11-07-2012, 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
But it was, kinda. Let me explain.

The reason we decided to remove the number of players displayed in the queue is because the information being reported was inaccurate. It would often times report a false number of players queued for individual events. In reality there are thousands of game servers across the shard constantly running all the different events, but the previous column in the queue UI was under-and-over representing the number of players. The information being reported was in most cases only a small slice of how many people were in each queue.

We've removed this column for Season 7 because we do not feel it was reporting queue population properly and was giving false positives, when in fact most events are busy around the clock. Other popular MMO games do not display population in queues and manage just fine, so we are going to leave this column out for the S7 launch and see how it goes under a full population of users.

As we move forward, if it turns into a bigger issue, we will investigate ways in which we can show players how "hot" some queues are, but this will require the tech wizards to find a way to report on the number of players in queues more accurately so that we can display the proper information.

We appreciate that it feels "weird" now on Tribble (where there are only a few hundred players playing at any given moment), but we ask that you wait and see how it goes under full Holodeck load. Our expectation is that players will still be able to get into queues as quickly as they could prior to S7.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
^^^
That's interesting as when I had access to that info - on 5 and 20 man events - when a queue hit 5 or 20 - it launched withing 10 - 15 seconds of those numbers being hit (and as an IT professional with a programming degree, the delay is understandable as the server has to 'fire up' an instance, and that's never instantaneous. It never behaved like the info displayed was inaccurate.

Also, many times, it helped us players PROVE to a GM or Dev that a given queue was stalled.

Sorry Brandon, but I don't fully buy that explanation because the 'number queued' did appear inaccurate based on how the queues responded - and I say that as someone who used the PvE queue system from the day it was added to the game.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
# 59
11-07-2012, 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanover2 View Post
Still determined to stop showing how many are already queued for a mission?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
But it was, kinda. Let me explain.

The reason we decided to remove the number of players displayed in the queue is because the information being reported was inaccurate. It would often times report a false number of players queued for individual events. In reality there are thousands of game servers across the shard constantly running all the different events, but the previous column in the queue UI was under-and-over representing the number of players. The information being reported was in most cases only a small slice of how many people were in each queue.

We've removed this column for Season 7 because we do not feel it was reporting queue population properly and was giving false positives, when in fact most events are busy around the clock. Other popular MMO games do not display population in queues and manage just fine, so we are going to leave this column out for the S7 launch and see how it goes under a full population of users.

As we move forward, if it turns into a bigger issue, we will investigate ways in which we can show players how "hot" some queues are, but this will require the tech wizards to find a way to report on the number of players in queues more accurately so that we can display the proper information.

We appreciate that it feels "weird" now on Tribble (where there are only a few hundred players playing at any given moment), but we ask that you wait and see how it goes under full Holodeck load. Our expectation is that players will still be able to get into queues as quickly as they could prior to S7.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
In other words... It didn't work as intended before and now that the dev team have already created and implemented this new UI (without proper testing), and it's too close to S7 launch timeframe wise, there isn't enough time to change it now. (now that mistakes have been brought to light!)

Okay, I get it... It'll have to stay as it is for now because the team didn't have the foresight to fix the problems and include the fixes into the new UI before they started designing it.

And now, as the player base, we still have to queue not knowing if there's 1,2 or 20 other players queuing for a selected mission, because the dev team didn't have the foresight and ability to redesign the system from the start properly. Now we just have to wait for you to catch up with your mistakes and someday implement a new and revised system based around the new UI which will eventually be what the new UI should have been in the first place!

Oh I'm giving myself a headache thinking about this and how it all could have been avoided!

Basically Dev Team... What you should have done was to take what was already there and all its features, build on it and improve it! Not take it and then leave out one of the most important features just to make it more appealing to the eye! What was wrong? Not enough room in your glorious Graphical achievement that is now known as the "New and Improved UI" for Already Queued Player Counts?

Think of how Kirk or Picard would feel about this... They'd say that you have X amount of time to make it work... Scotty would say he'd do it in 12hrs... Kirk would say he had 6hrs and if he did it, Scotty was a miracle worker! Picard would say "I need that Now! Get to work!, Make It So!"

We are your paying Captains... And on behalf of us all, I'm taking the Picard approach - Get that system reimplemented before S7 goes to warp! "Make It So!" -

[/RANT]
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,100
# 60
11-07-2012, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
But it was, kinda. Let me explain.

The reason we decided to remove the number of players displayed in the queue is because the information being reported was inaccurate. It would often times report a false number of players queued for individual events. In reality there are thousands of game servers across the shard constantly running all the different events, but the previous column in the queue UI was under-and-over representing the number of players. The information being reported was in most cases only a small slice of how many people were in each queue.

We've removed this column for Season 7 because we do not feel it was reporting queue population properly and was giving false positives, when in fact most events are busy around the clock. Other popular MMO games do not display population in queues and manage just fine, so we are going to leave this column out for the S7 launch and see how it goes under a full population of users.

As we move forward, if it turns into a bigger issue, we will investigate ways in which we can show players how "hot" some queues are, but this will require the tech wizards to find a way to report on the number of players in queues more accurately so that we can display the proper information.

We appreciate that it feels "weird" now on Tribble (where there are only a few hundred players playing at any given moment), but we ask that you wait and see how it goes under full Holodeck load. Our expectation is that players will still be able to get into queues as quickly as they could prior to S7.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
That kind of makes sense.... but it's hard to even play other MMO's, I'm so used to it being there.

Hope you can bring it back soon.
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