Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,750
# 71
11-08-2012, 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
But it was, kinda. Let me explain.

The reason we decided to remove the number of players displayed in the queue is because the information being reported was inaccurate.

I have to agree with another poster in this thread. If a queue has people it always starts right away, or at most a minute. If it has none it will NEVER start. Anyone that has used the queue system extensively can right away see the benefits of showing the number of players queued. I think you are either being misled or there is a pretty huge snafu in communication somewhere in the line.

Even if the number was misleading it was much better than not having anything at all. I think this has more to do with trying to get more players to queue to more things instead of the same 5 or 6 things. If it really was about just the numbers being misleading it would've been FIXED wouldn't it? STFs already got a nerf to Dil and the STF store with easy access to relatively decent weapons was removed entirely. At this rate they will be nerfing Colony Invasion and Starbase Incursion next!

Of course, option "B" is that the queued players number simply was a victim of Cryptic's scorched earth policy concerning minor bugs that are tough to fix. I think we can all think of more than a few things that were taken out entirely instead of ever getting fixed. Easier to simply remove the feature where the bug shows up than to fix it. Better yet, a finicky feature removed is a future source of bugs forever removed!.....yay......

Supporting all this is that this was a known problem brought up when it showed up on tribble.... so unless they don't bother to read the feedback of their testers they known about it.

This is sad. I can't decide what is more likely in play here, lazy incompetence or Machiavellian PWE game design theory. This is really sad, I'm not kidding. Its like everytime we get a little insight into Cryptic and we start putting 2 and 2 together we get more and more disappointed. Its either they don't want to bother fixing a bug in a system the players like, ripping it out altogether because it'd be "too hard" to "properly fix" and "get right". Or, they really are trying to push players into diversifying and prolonging their play sessions by nerfing the good stuff (STFs) instead of improving the bad stuff (the old, long, boring repetitive Fleet Actions)

I just keep reminding myself its not the devs fault, this comes from management.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 72
11-08-2012, 01:41 AM
Most people using queues on a regular basis can make quite accurate guesses on when queues will start or if it even makes sense to queue thanks to the number of players already in there. It's no surprise that instances need a couple seconds to start after the required number of people has queued and as many others have pointed out, the numbers shown look quite accurate to me.

It has been made quite clear that Cryptic has no intention to bring the numbers back, but if you really had to take something out, why not just the absolutly useless average waiting time? You know, the column that really is incorrect in many situations. I'd really like to see all those invisible queued players that have been mentioned in low level PvP queues, KDF queues and generally during times that are not prime time US.

Funny example. Low level PvP queues seem to pop always shortly after the required number of 8 players is reached. The only thing inaccurate there is the average waiting time, which even if there are only 2 people in the queue shows about 30 minutes. So this either means I'm usually leveling new characters in about 3 hours to VA or those 5 to 6 PvP matches I get till a character is VA do not pop every 30 minutes.

So yes, the number of players is important to see if it makes sense to queue for something at the moment or not, to decide if it makes sense to maybe wait another 5 minutes for a queue to start, to actually decide for which 3 things to queue (the most important thing here IMHO). Stop finding implausible excuses for why features that obviously worked quite fine are taken away. Maybe Cryptic should start a discussion about taking internal discussions about feedback more serious and when they've finished talking something can be done.
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decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010

Last edited by decker03; 11-08-2012 at 01:59 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 170
# 73
11-08-2012, 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by decker03 View Post

So yes, the number of players is important to see if it makes sense to queue for something at the moment or not, to decide if it makes sense to maybe wait another 5 minutes for a queue to start, to actually decide for which 3 things to queue (the most important thing here IMHO). Stop finding implausible excuses for why features that obviously worked quite fine are taken away. Maybe Cryptic should start a discussion about taking internal discussions about feedback more serious and when they've finished talking something can be done.

THIS THIS THIS

I could not have said it any better. You are totally reading my mind here.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,633
# 74
11-08-2012, 02:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trek21 View Post
They bother in other MMO's...

Seriously, it's a minor little thing; people aren't gonna leave simply because of this.

My two cents
I think the level of feedback and generally unanimous concern in this post alone tells you this is NOT a minor little thing. If I don't know a queue has people in it i probably won't bother entering it which means it will have one less person in it, multiply that obvious effect across the game population and you have a whole lot of empty queues which take perhaps hours to fill. There will be just a handful of queues that people bother with such as fleet alert and ise, the rest will gather dust and as a result the player base will get bored very quickly and do something different.

As I said before, a monumental miscalculation justified by a plainly absurd argument given to Brandon by a Dev team that forgot to add it when the coding was finished and now don't want to have to do it again because it would delay S7 and the sale of the Vesta. They are putting short term financial gain ahead of the continued success of the game and the wishes of the the most vocal and committed fans - or in orther words commercial suicide brought about by incompetence and inability to admit mistakes.

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,094
# 75
11-08-2012, 03:38 AM
Ok , the more paranoid side of me just kicked in (yes , there is one ! ) :

Is this queue counter thingy being removed because you don't want players to see that there are queue's that are permanently (or semi-permanently) empty ?
Is this done to keep the playerbase ignorant ?
"We're not mad at Angry Birds, and we're not trying to defend the universe from Angry Birds. Although you might want to consider defending yourself from Angry Birds. If you aren't paying for the app, you aren't a customer, you're the product ."

- former CIA, NSA chief Michael Hayden -- your guide to F2P ...
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,337
# 76
11-08-2012, 03:44 AM
Hm, it could actually be a bit that... because empty queues become self-fulfilling prophecies.
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,999
# 77
11-08-2012, 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjohnsonva View Post
I think the level of feedback and generally unanimous concern in this post alone tells you this is NOT a minor little thing. If I don't know a queue has people in it i probably won't bother entering it which means it will have one less person in it, multiply that obvious effect across the game population and you have a whole lot of empty queues which take perhaps hours to fill. There will be just a handful of queues that people bother with such as fleet alert and ise, the rest will gather dust and as a result the player base will get bored very quickly and do something different.

As I said before, a monumental miscalculation justified by a plainly absurd argument given to Brandon by a Dev team that forgot to add it when the coding was finished and now don't want to have to do it again because it would delay S7 and the sale of the Vesta. They are putting short term financial gain ahead of the continued success of the game and the wishes of the the most vocal and committed fans - or in orther words commercial suicide brought about by incompetence and inability to admit mistakes.
*Applauds*

Couldn't agree more!

It's ironic really - we forum users often disagree on many things, but as you say, there has been almost unanimous concern expressed about this. I realise that forum users actually only make up a small percentile of the overall users of the game itself, but when we're all singing from the same proverbial hymn sheet it does suggest that it is something that REALLY needs to be addressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdmc View Post
Remember, this place [Captain's Table] is so desolate that upon entering the Aenigma Nebula you will be prompted with a warp out box because the game thinks you flew there by mistake.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 78
11-08-2012, 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
The team has been reading posts about this change in the Tribble forums and is taking the feedback into consideration

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
You know, back when I first saw this change I made a topic about it- and someone was quick to point out that a dev had popped into TTS and mentioned that this was a 'bug'.

I immediately declared that, in the spirit of 180s, for all 180s that have come before, Cryptic would surely do a 180 on calling it a bug and label it, instead, a 'design feature'.


Well as much as I appreciate that you guys are looking at this 'feature' and taking feedback into consideration... I think I also need to say...

VINDICATION!

180 confirmed!
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 68
# 79
11-08-2012, 04:09 AM
jesus christ.. you're all making a fuss about it, like someone took a leak in your beer, while its just a cosmetical change in regards to the less played stfs for the sake of more diverisity overall in endgame, which is actually good and which you will get used to after a couple of days or weeks..

seriously.. with that much of venting here you look like this game is about to get cut till they have to shut down the servers, while all the changes from a year ago till this very day lead to a influx of players and money so that it is fully re-established..
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,502
# 80
11-08-2012, 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
The reason we decided to remove the number of players displayed in the queue is because the information being reported was inaccurate.
can't agree here

i was often monitoring the progress of a queue while i was waiting for it to pop and it always popped when it reached 5of5
then the queue window dropped back to 0 or 1

and i usually queue up for 3 events and wait for the first one who pops and the window was ALWAYS correct in telling me which one would pop first.

it did not update every microsecond and maybe lagged a little behind the actual state, but that kind of thing is to be expected in any online game.


oh well i guess there will be a PvE queue channel soon enough where players look for other players, the various EliteSTF channels did a good job so far, just to not play with PUGs but now it will also be good so we have not to bother with this queue system.


Anyway this new queue is one step forward, 2 steps back.

too much UI bloat,
removed important functionality,
the only pro here is the added info about the rewards, which should really be a popout window
maybe the filters (that never remember what i selected last time) will be helpful in another 3 years when there are so many missions in the queue that we have to actually start filtering for something, instead of just scrolling down 20 pixels ;P
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