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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 11
11-08-2012, 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post

@bitemepwe: That?s what I thought, but it isn't what i found. Sorry.
No worries.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 12
11-08-2012, 07:52 AM
@Queue83: I haven't had chance to get into the nitty gritty of torps yet. But i can tell you 5 +30% energy consoles are NOT adding +150% to the damage, not even close. Nor is the total skill bonus anywhere near what your suggesting, i haven't looked into the individual benefits of each skill but the total of the two is +50% of base damage, not +50% per skill.

I'm not saying your torp figures are wrong btw, just that there's clearly a diffrent system at work IMHO, though all my tests where done at lv50 so it's impossibble to factor out the possibble benfit of that. On the other hand i'm only intrested in how the base damage of an energy weapon, (so damage without consoles, @ 50 weapons power, and with nio skill effects), is affected by everything else, so how that base is calculated isn't so important. Though running quick math your thing about weapon mk and rarity may well explain the apparent console odditties since it would add a defuallt +100% to base damage, (approx, their was some small error margins on the percentages i got, but with

Here's my current corrected formulae to take account of my late night math errors when constructing it from the basic rules i'd established:


(B + (B*S) + (B*(C/CV)))*(1+(0.02*(W-50))))*(1+(APA+TF+APO+GDF))

Where:

CV = Console Variable. I need to check if this really varies with weapons Mk as Queue38's post suggests, all my tests where done with eitheir MK10 purples, (basic figures) or MK10 whites, (BO).

I'm going to try and do some more tests on skill points, Sensor Analysis, and Weapon Mk effects. But first i need my afternoon after work nap .
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 13
11-08-2012, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
oh, having 5 tac consoles isn't that big of a deal. SURE. RIGHT.

the tac buffs multiply the adjusted tool tip displayed damage huh? from what i've seen i'll believe that. no wonder 5 console ships hit so much harder when fully buffed.


good job doing all this testing
I checked to see how much more my DPS increased when I went from 3 to 4 mk XII purple consoles, and it went up by 90-ish.

I expect it to go up another 90-ish when I get my Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit.

This was when I was orbiting ESD, so all of the modifiers should have been in play.

I believe, with all of the attack buffs, it will probably only increase the DPS by 500-1000 if you add all of the weapons together.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 157
# 14
11-08-2012, 10:39 AM
ok it does add what the exact %. but it is off the base base damage it might be a mk I but my math was off of the standard issue.

it is harder to test if you are not level 1 about get a standard issue beam array and any console you want. it will match very close. hover over the stauts menu to see. no matter what the console you pick will always add the same mount.

i have to do some shopping. so when my son takes a nap i will see what i can come up with.

my standard issue beam array was 102 then i add a 22.5% console and it went to 124.5

the math said it should be 124.95. but i am at level 50 so the base is more then like 100.

like i said i will get back to you.
I am @allenlabarge in game
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 15
11-08-2012, 12:11 PM
No problem having been asleep and having got more than 5 brain cells lined up your littile formulae makes sense.

TheB value in my formulae is bassiclly the base damage modified for Mk and Rariety. A Mk 10 once you knock skill and consoles off is just fractionally over +100% base damage with the lv50 modifier added in. This means the two skill benefits would appear to be +25% ech, not +50%, and the console base magnitudes would also appear to be halved. In fact when i use your exact math i get the exact return is should, (a 26.2% console was actually showing a 12.7% boost and skill points where 48.7% total but i put the variable down to statsital errors due to the small numbers involved, but if i account for the fractionally larger than base 100% modifer from Mk and rareity i can replicate exact numbers).

I'm still going to try and confirm it with some Mk12 whites though, just to be absolutly certain everything is working as we think. I also want to check each skill in turn as i've seen other data that's conflictoray about this. Also i want to know how tis interacts with my BO deductions. I suspect BO may actually be a +1200/1500/1700% base damage modifier but we need to confirm that.


For whoever asked earlier i think crits et all multiply the final output.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,087
# 16
11-08-2012, 12:34 PM
Consoles add a flat amount that doesn't care what the weapons actually damage is from mark or rarity, just the type. Simple way to test is to equip two weapons of the same type but different mark.

Test was done on toon with NO skill points invested at level 50 with no relevant accolades at 50 weapon power.

Mk 6 white tetryon beam array with 0 consoles gives 159.2 DPV, 2 consoles (52.4%) change damage to 211.7 DPV an change of 52.5 DPV

Mk 11 purple tetryon beam array with a single [Dmg] mod and two other mods with 0 consoles gives 222.7 DPV, 2 consoles (same as before) change damage to 275.2 DPV a change of.....52.5 DPV

Follow up test, 0 consoles, 50 weapon power, maxed tier 1 Weapon skill ONLY

Mk 6 white tetryon beam array deals 208.7 DPV, or 49.5 DPV increase
Mk 11 purple tetryon beam array deals 272.2 DPV, or a ..... 49.5 DPV increase

I don't pretend to know what they are a % of, nor do I care. But they only take into account the weapon type beam array/cannon/etc.

The actual DPV formula is pretty simple to my understanding but I do not pretend to know the details of how a weapon gets it's numbers from.

Weapon + Console Mod + Skill Mod = Base
Base * Power Mod * Damage Mod from abilities/accolades/etc = Raw DPV
Raw DPV * Enemy Resistance Mod = True DPV

What the Console Mod and Skill Mod are derived from I have no idea. It is a % of a number based on the weapon type and I'm guessing character level possibly. Skill Mod works the same way. What does this mean you ask?

Every single upgrade you gain, be it a better weapon or better console, has a negligible effect on your actual DPV because of how everything gets added together instead of multiplied.

This is also why Tac captain abilities are so insanely strong at increasing your DPS along with resistance debuffs like Attack Pattern Beta.

Last edited by bareel; 11-08-2012 at 01:03 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 17
11-08-2012, 01:10 PM
@Bareel: Cheers for that, sounds like queu38 is correct then.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,087
# 18
11-08-2012, 01:23 PM
Did more testing and I think I have a theory.

Console DPV mod is based on the damage a Mk 0 weapon would deal. IE to calculate the mod you would take the true base of the weapon type (a Mk 0) and multiply it by the mod.

Reason is simple, a base Mk 0 beam array would deal 98 DPV and the beam arrays are gaining about 52.5 DPV from a pair of consoles added together mod by 52.4%. If you take 98 * .524 you get 51.4 which is close enough for it to be a rounding error with the consoles having a bit more mod that is not shown.

I'm going to guess that skill bonus is the same. You do not really get the previously assumed 25% or anything like that. Instead I found the tier 1 skill adding 49.5 DPV to a beam array. Guess what 98 * .4995 is 48.9 and once again close enough for me.

*edit extra info*
In addition each tier for beam array adds 10.2 DPV.
Each Quality upgrade adds 2.5 DPV (IE 5 DPV if blue)
Each [Dmg] mod adds 5 DPV.

So revised formula for beam array DPV would look like this:

Base = 98 + (Mark * 10.2) + (Console * 98) + (Skill *98) + (Quality * 2.5) + (Dmg * 5)
Base * Modifiers * Power Mod = Displayed DPV

Should be pretty darn close for beam arrays. So lets say we have a fleet mark 12 beam array on a fleet defiant with 5 Mk 12 purple consoles maxed skills. Then we go at max weapon power with say a 10% boost from Epower to Weapons.
Base = 98 + 122.4 + 147 + 98 + 10 + 15 : 490.4 DPV
Displayed DPV = 490.4 * 2.5 * 1.1 : 1348.6 DPV

And we fire at a target with no shields and -30% resists for a DPV of 1753.
*edited did bad math with weapon power mod fixxed now*

Last edited by bareel; 11-08-2012 at 01:49 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 19
11-08-2012, 01:53 PM
Quote:
Console DPV mod is based on the damage a Mk 0 weapon would deal. IE to calculate the mod you would take the true base of the weapon type (a Mk 0) and multiply it by the mod.
This is exactly what queue38 said .

Dosen't make my originol stuff any less useful as it confirms how tac buffs and such like interact, but yeah that sounds about right. Gonna do some more testing of my own on other stuff mind.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 157
# 20
11-08-2012, 02:33 PM
ok it took me most the after noon but i modified my torpedo excel file so now i have both torpedo and energy weapons.

all you have to do is put in the weapon and any bonuses you have.

doesn't do buffs yet

one problem i don't know how to get anyone else the file. any ideas?
I am @allenlabarge in game
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