Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 141
11-08-2012, 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upyournacelles2 View Post
First off, are you talking about sci ships or sci captains here? You kind of go off on tangents for both. Second, have you ever fielded a serious team with 4 good sci captains on it? People begin to hate you very quickly saying its cheap to bring 4 sci captains on a team....
There are a lot of these types who seem to think that Sci should be able to do everything: they want the damage of a Tac, the heals of an Eng and the hard CC of a Sci (albeit most don't seem to be familiar with or understand what "crowd control" is).

Again I don't know what STO they're playing, because the one I'm in it's not uncommon to see real teams field 3+ Scis per game. And Sci does not have the monopoly on underpowered or buggy skills, either, in fact I'd say the pain is spread quite evenly between all three classes (Sci arguably has more useful heals/resists/cleanses than Eng, even).

These people need to make up their minds about what they want Sci doing, because if they want the ability to do Tac damage/Eng heal and tote a subnuke for good measure, they're going to be disappointed. I don't know how it was in the past but that's not how the game should be designed.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 24
# 142
11-08-2012, 02:25 PM
Again, i think that TBR itself is not the problem but the huge spike damage that it gets from tac buff. That is the real issue. Simply nerfing the TBR instead of addressing the real issue will be another slap in the face of the sci captains. Anyway i was considering to leave my sci only for grinding and roll a tac.

Just because you are lazy or dont know how to counter a skill, it doesnt mean it is actually broken. TBR has a lot of counters:

- hard: PH (makes you immune so its a wasted sci comm skill);
- soft: from consoles to HE, doffs (shield/hazard), EM, engine batteries, Aux to Inertial Dampeners, SS, Aux disable (phasers, VM, beam target subsystem).

Actually, this brings the need to actually think and use brains not only muscles. I know its cool to feel superior by being the God of PVP in a pew pew escort and blow away a ship in 4 seconds but hopefully the devs wont turn the game in a one class one i win built.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 143
11-08-2012, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cichicichi View Post
Again, i think that TBR itself is not the problem but the huge spike damage that it gets from tac buff.
So you think that >5k (raw) per pulse (without tac buffs) directly through shields is fine?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 144
11-08-2012, 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cichicichi View Post
Again, i think that TBR itself is not the problem but the huge spike damage that it gets from tac buff. That is the real issue. Simply nerfing the TBR instead of addressing the real issue will be another slap in the face of the sci captains. Anyway i was considering to leave my sci only for grinding and roll a tac.

Just because you are lazy or dont know how to counter a skill, it doesnt mean it is actually broken. TBR has a lot of counters:

- hard: PH (makes you immune so its a wasted sci comm skill);
- soft: from consoles to HE, doffs (shield/hazard), EM, engine batteries, Aux to Inertial Dampeners, SS, Aux disable (phasers, VM, beam target subsystem).

Actually, this brings the need to actually think and use brains not only muscles. I know its cool to feel superior by being the God of PVP in a pew pew escort and blow away a ship in 4 seconds but hopefully the devs wont turn the game in a one class one i win built.
This attitude is so baffling to me. Are you thinking before writing what you're saying? TBR is a non-directed skill, it doesn't even need an arc. It has a longer effective range and is far more effective with fewer buffs/specs than cannons will ever be.

You do not have to take TBR at Com, and plenty of skills have one-skill counters. In fact some of TBR's intended counters make the situation worse (APO, Inertial Damps).

Would you care to explain what makes TBR a thinking man's skill, as opposed to escorts which take no thought whatsoever?

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 145
11-08-2012, 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
This attitude is so baffling to me. Are you thinking before writing what you're saying? TBR is a non-directed skill, it doesn't even need an arc. It has a longer effective range and is far more effective with fewer buffs/specs than cannons will ever be.

You do not have to take TBR at Com, and plenty of skills have one-skill counters. In fact some of TBR's intended counters make the situation worse (APO, Inertial Damps).

Would you care to explain what makes TBR a thinking man's skill, as opposed to escorts which take no thought whatsoever?
JM2C, but I doubt AP:O was ever intended to be TBR's counter. In all likelihood, the intent was the other way around. PH, on the otherhand, was certainly meant to be the "lolTractorbeams" skill but doesn't have anywhere near enough up time to stop you from getting murdered by Repulsors.

At this point in time, Repulsors cause so much hull attrition that most ships cannot keep up with the incoming damage, even when not Tac-buffed. For the record, 5k per pulse was where TBR 3 were before the damage scaling on TBR got knocked out of whack.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 146
11-08-2012, 03:20 PM
Aren't PH and TBR active for 10 seconds each?
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 38
# 147
11-08-2012, 03:47 PM
This whole ordeal has left me with a couple of ideas actually.

The first is I really do enjoy the fact that this has increasing returns. I find that even with full consoles, certain science abilities (shield drains) never quite reach the level of viability they should. Tossing a little bit of extra damage for those who choose to heavily invest in a skill seems fine to me.

Second idea plays off the first, sensor scan really needs some way of interacting with science abilities. In it's current state it serves nothing but boosting direct hull damage; if it also lowered some resistance based skills, offensive sci/sci would gain a bit of ground to offensive tac/sci.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,085
# 148
11-08-2012, 04:04 PM
Slot TB3, TBR2, PS1...compare the damage.

edit: BTW, that's not asking for a buff to TB or PS - just an example of how ridiculous TBR is...
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel

Last edited by virusdancer; 11-08-2012 at 05:35 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 24
# 149
11-08-2012, 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
This attitude is so baffling to me. Are you thinking before writing what you're saying? TBR is a non-directed skill, it doesn't even need an arc. It has a longer effective range and is far more effective with fewer buffs/specs than cannons will ever be.

You do not have to take TBR at Com, and plenty of skills have one-skill counters. In fact some of TBR's intended counters make the situation worse (APO, Inertial Damps).

Would you care to explain what makes TBR a thinking man's skill, as opposed to escorts which take no thought whatsoever?
You get that with 3+ PartGen consoles and 9 points in PartGen. And, as you said, it is RAW damage not NET.

Yes, it is perfectly fine. As long as it has a hard counter and a lot of soft counters. If i was a tacscort boasting about one hit one ship destroyed, it would have been fine, right?
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 24
# 150
11-08-2012, 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair114 View Post
JM2C, but I doubt AP:O was ever intended to be TBR's counter. In all likelihood, the intent was the other way around. PH, on the otherhand, was certainly meant to be the "lolTractorbeams" skill but doesn't have anywhere near enough up time to stop you from getting murdered by Repulsors.

At this point in time, Repulsors cause so much hull attrition that most ships cannot keep up with the incoming damage, even when not Tac-buffed. For the record, 5k per pulse was where TBR 3 were before the damage scaling on TBR got knocked out of whack.
First, TBR radius is of 5 km while cannons is 10. Surely, they get more effective under 6 km but this is another story. With CSV you can still hit more targets while with TBR you only get one, maybe 2 pulses if you are lucky against 3 targets, than possibly another 2 against one single target.

Secondly, blindly pushing opponents away with TBR is stupid and may cost a match (ruining a team alpha strike or an opportunity strike). I pop up mines and try to fly with TBR so that i push the target away then i push it back to mines.

PH negates TBR and it is a wasted comm skill that may prove a turning point in a dog fight. Are you lazy to slot it or you dont want to change your precious "i win" build? It's fun to stay at the butt of a target and pop it away as a tacscort in a few seconds. It also takes a hell of a mastermind to do that. Hey, it was much easier for me to play sciscort or sci cruiser than a sci in a sci vessel!

Some of you should realize that sci captains, that don't want to fly escorts/cruisers or be limited at a single compulsory role of CC (and even that not effective), want to actually feel they have a chance to do something in pvp other than die the first.

Last edited by cichicichi; 11-09-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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