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Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 11
11-09-2012, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post

1) The huge number of abilities is reduced, meaning pvp comes more down to skill than who can chain off the right number of abilities. This makes it more like tier 3 PvP where its a little more manageable for new players and less hectic all round. Teamwork and tactics are the order of the day.

2) It will be less confusing as there are less abilities to pick from and be hit with making counters easier to use. It should also make it more balanced as everyone gets the same boff station configs (3 ensign, 1 lt), and you will know what a ship is capable of.

3) People wont have access to the mega abilities that result in almost instant kills giving people time to enjoy the fight rather than being blown to hell inside 2 seconds.

4) Higher up powers can be tweaked for PvE as much as they like as they will never be used in PvP again.

5) Much more restrictive set up will give PvP players a new challenge to learn as they set up their ships.

6) It should make it much fairer all round. PvP Should largely be about skill, and gear. Not cash spent. Leave that for PvE only.

7) The PvP Reputation system does not affect normal PvE, and thus attracting leechers, but does give proper PvP players something to aim for, and still provides the hardcore elite PvP players with that sense of superiority.

Thoughts?
Responding to your points:

1) There are 6 types of pieces on a chess board, Bishop, Knight, Rook, Queen, King and Pawn. The knights, rooks, and bishops are doubled. So let's add another 3 onto the mix. So 9 total types, let's call these doubles on a skill tree to reduce cool down. If you reduce stuff, you will have a game less complicated than chess at that point.

2) Confusion is the result of lack of knowledge mostly. If you make yourself familiar with those abilities, you will not be as prone to confusion.

3) The Queen on a chess board is the "mega" ability. In essence, PvP is strategic just like chess and often deemed as "speed chess. If you have 5 players playing against another 5 who all have queens, it's like having a tournament of chess. Where one team bests the other. So in essence, the "commander" slot for all ships, is the Queen ability on your team.

4) They should be used in PvP. Imagine a Chess game with no Queens on the board. Boring dull, and not exciting.

5) Restricting players to a lesser form of game play will get a lot of flak in this community.

6) I agree, but the timing of those skills are comparable to the use of a Queen on a chess board. You tend to lose if you use your Queen recklessly without a plan.

7) Trust me, you don't want people measuring **** in an online MMO. It leads to pointless arguments about superiority. You want everyone participating, superior or not. Turkish RP Heroes by far and large is not superior in experience when it comes to PvP. However we bode very well vs those that have way more experience than us when it comes to PvP. However, do not going around boasting it. In fact, we would appreciate all PvE'ers be required to PvP in this game like PvPers are required to PvE. At least this way, the "superiority" you speak of is merely a whisper in a multitude of players and fleets.

Thanks for your post. But the fix for PvP comes at the significant dollar investment needed by the developers to fix it. This is the inherent problem with PvP and has always been this way. The neglect to invest into PvP, is due to it's small player base. Eliminating skills, etc isn't going to create more player base, but reduce it instead.

-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 12
11-09-2012, 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post

None taken. I want PvP to get better and this is but one idea, and look if everyone hates it then, heck at least the devs know what NOT to do.

But I think these things need to be discussed because PvP needs help and its not going anywhere fast at the moment.
I agree that many things need to be fixed for PvP.
Though your idea of restricted ships will go against Cryptics moneymaking purpose of selling ships to the playerbase as any who PvPs will no longer need to buy any new ships from the Cstore, Lockbox or Fleet stabases if all ships are going to be reduced to a few choices and BOff layouts.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 13
11-09-2012, 09:44 AM
I rather see in regard to this suggestion from the OP, that the consoles which the ship followed it is restricted to ONLY said origin ship.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 403
# 14
11-09-2012, 10:30 AM
The failing of new players in PvP (and indeed some veterans) is more about skill than anything else. My first few tries I still had my all-plasma all borg setup and the wrong BOFF setup for PvP. When I was with a half way decent team I still did pretty well. When I was with a bad team we got slaughtered. Changed my setup after some research on these forums, and my own personal survivability and damage output went up dramatically, but I still get slaughtered on a bad PuG team in my 25 dollar ship with PvP specific gear.

At the start of every match I type the same simple advice "don't rush in, work together and focus fire" and more often than not someone in the PuG charges willy-nilly into the fray at full impulse, followed by two more members of the team at perfectly timed intervals to allow the other team (if organized) to focus fire them into oblivion one by one.

I also see heal boats trying to DPS and other obvious mistakes.

When I play KDF side, I use my carrier which still has a full load of borg plasma (BoPs of course have disruptor) and always do quite well. It's the free T4 version of the ship, not the C-Store Upgrade. My personal view is that almost always in Fed -v- KDF the KDF side works well together and pays attention to what ships are on the team, whereas on the Fed side tends to be more of the "rush in at full impulse with no weapon power and die one by one" situation going on.

I agree that what we need is more compelling reasons for people to PvP, but also a certain amount of this is also up to the players. What follows is my suggestion to the VETERAN PvP crowd:

(this particularly applies to the PreMade Groups that work together well and are almost impossible for a PuG to beat)

Situation:

Match begins, your well organized premade group gets into postion and lies in wait for the enemy to make a mistake (like flying willy-nilly into your teeth) and they happily comply.

Slaughter occurs. Between Danubes and TBR Spam and your MK XII (ACC)x3 weapons each enemy ship, separated from it's teammates dies ahorrible death in seconds.

Score is now 5-0.

Enemy team repeats all the same mistakes.

Score is now 10-0

This is now the veteran PvP players opportunity to improve PvP for all ...

IMHO if you care about the state of PvP and want full que and strong support for needed changes, you need to take this opportunity to HELP the enemy players learn.

It could be as simple as typing a friendly suggestion in zone.

You could go as far as to suggest in zone that since your premade team is obviously OP compared to the PuG you are fighting that if the PuG is wiling you will be glad to spend some time coaching them before finishing the match.

You could take the time to friend the obviously less experienced player and message them something like "Good try bud, new to PvP? If you ever want any advice or help learning more about PvP feel free to message me!"

In conclusion:

The first step to improving PvP in STO is to increase the raw numbers participating. If a new player loading all borg plasma in that shiny new C-Store Ship or the Mirror Ship they are so excited about goes into Arena five or so times and get's destroyed mercilessly they won't be back. They will FALSELY assume that they lost because they aren't willing to spend a ton money to P2W.

I know it goes counter to standard thinking to teach your enemy how to win, but the question is, do you want your carefully put together team to just win 15-0 and never have a great fight, or do you want to win 15-14 in a one hour slugfest against other knowledgeable players? If it's the latter, take a littlle time and reach out to the new players who are trying to PvP and help them get better.

PvP will begin to thrive when the average new player can join the que and wind up more often than not on a team of four experienced players that will be helpful. Increase our numbers and we hold more buying power and therefore influence with the devs.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,169
# 15
11-09-2012, 12:33 PM
balance is MUCH better then people give them credit. theres really just a handful of overpowered or underpowered things, the core is solid. if you cant no mater what you do compete, you simply haven't learned to play quite as well as your opponents. there are several helpful resources though, help threads, an upcoming boot camp, stuff like that
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,136
# 16
11-09-2012, 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Space for rent.
Have definate audience one and possibly many more!
Get your word out to the forums. Why just trust in a post, thread or your own signature. RENT IT NOW!!
LOL, I thought I had a long-term lease on that space.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,169
# 17
11-09-2012, 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmalak1 View Post
LOL, I thought I had a long-term lease on that space.
me too lol
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,183
# 18
11-09-2012, 12:56 PM
i agree with glassguitar, fully!

and i don't like the idea of gimping my hard earned equipment. why else would i grind the MK XII if i cannot use it in PVP?

why would i buy T5 ships and T3,4 ships with their consoles?

cryptic would NEVER implement changes proposed by OP cause it would make all the zen store fluff disposable.

cryptic should start with creating a daily PVP one-hour slot where PVP dill rewards should be doubled, they should create some mechanics for PVP teams, they should offer more maps with different goals, not only 15 kills and base holdings without ANY math, perhaps enable foundry PVP maps creation, free duelling in space and on ground, duelling points..

That would be enough to get more people in. I am sure some of them, which NEVER tried PVP cause it is so ......(fill in).... would actually find it fun and enjoyable and would take a look on the forums to learn more and become better.

Nobody started as a PRO here, even i get blown up by my own bio-neural sometimes!


EDIT:
Remembering entering the arena for the first time in my Hegh'ta BOP full of MKX green energy weapons (a great eye-opener)!

PVP taught me how to really use my ship, how to specialize, play the game effectively choose the right BOFF abilities for the current situation (that is why im having like 10 BOFFS per char), be a strategist.. which also helps a lot in PVE.

If a blond chick from europe can learn it - anyone can, they just need a little incentive..

Last edited by duaths1; 11-09-2012 at 01:10 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 19
11-16-2012, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmalak1 View Post
LOL, I thought I had a long-term lease on that space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
me too lol
Times is rough in the USA, man needs to make a little extra scratch anyway he can..........
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,685
# 20
11-16-2012, 05:11 PM
A blond chick from Europe...
After a fierce battle against the evuls a Fed Captain needs some relax!
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