Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 21
11-10-2012, 01:34 AM
Besta fanboys = Besta is not the bestests. Everyone else = *facepalm*
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 22
11-10-2012, 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
To be honest this ship is certainly not overpowered. This ship is essentially a fleet recon science vessel with one turn rate point fewer, weaker hull, and a lower shield modifier. It's advantage is that can equip dual heavy cannons and has a hangar bay. Sure, it has console bonuses, but doing so sacrifices almost one third of your open slots.

This ship still won't be able to keep 17+ turn rate escorts in their line of fire, not with a turn rate of 12. The ship will never have the capability to exceed an escort's DPS, even with sensor scan. And for the players claiming that sensor scan gives a flat +33% bonus to all damage, they need to rethink those claims. In order to fully stack to +33%, a player needs to keep a target lock on the enemy for at least a minute. Anyone who calls themselves a PvPer knows that breaking a science vessel's sensor scan ability is incredibly easy. Every time I have a prolonged fight with an escort in PvP, they will use evasives or APO in order to get 10.1Km just to reset the sensor scan stack. Or the escort will just use subspace jump, which automatically breaks any target locks. When I fly an escort, I do the exact same thing when fighting a science vessel shield tanking.

Also, if the vesta uses all dual heavy cannons, it becomes effectively impossible for the ship to use innate subsystem targeting, removing a very potent science vessel ability. The ship will have potential, I will give it that. However, it will have to rely on well placed science abilities and skill, or the pilot will be out-tanked by cruisers or melted by 5 tac console escorts. Even if a pilot goes with the 4 tac slots, it will mean they only have 2 eng slots. Combined with a mere 29K hull, they will melt under sustained fire. In fact, a well placed beam overload III could oneshot a two console armored vesta if buffed right.
last i checked my fleet recon cant equip dual heavy cannons, or have a 5th science slot, or have a neat-o phaser lance like shot, or "perfect shields"... i could go on really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 23
11-10-2012, 06:09 AM
Last i checke the A was only broken if you spent a significant amount of time with the target unselected or out of range, dipping out of range for a couple fo seconds or forcing them to re-select after a jump isn't going to magiclly break it. you got to bear off for a good 10 seconds plus. And this thing is certianlyl able to keep up with any non-escort well enough to never have to worry about somone running away. In a pure vesta vs escort duel the vesta might not be quite so potent, but anything else IS going to have to contend with the full 10 stacks of SA becuase they've no realistic means of breaking the SA.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 361
# 24
11-10-2012, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
it will hit as hard as every escort build that includes a torp or DBB, were the BO misses or the torp hit shields harmlessly. more often then not, this is what happens to non 4 DHC escorts.

captain tac powers with just CRF 1 will deal more damage, and more useful damage, then an 8 beam array cruiser. maybe even a 4 single cannon cruiser. its the usefulness of spike thats the problem. before this ship, sci ships could just befuddle, not deal much in the way of damage. the vesta will add significantly to the spike available for focus fireing, dealing the right damage at the right time, to vastly increase kill chance.

Yes torps and a dbb fail sometimes but they wont fail a whole match long. Also you notice the missing dps compared to 4 DHC if your dbb/torps fail.
Also yes sci ships lack spike but again a fleet sci recon with a dbb bo could also deal spike if it hits. We will see if this turns out to be a problem. Just stay calm and wait.
Also sci can deal quite some dmg with good timed torps or tric mines at the moment. Or with sci powers if there are some working at the time, like PSW once did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
a tac captain in the vesta with a LTC tac or TLC eng with a 2 AtB build will have global cannon ability up time, just like an escort. the only thing it could be missing is any APO, the weakest of all damage buffing tac abilities. SNB and sensor scan turning off someones resistance will be basically as effective at dealing damage as staked tac powers as well. thats why sci/escorts can be so dangerous.

there is no getting around it, its a monstrously op mary sue ship that makes a significant number of other ships in the game worthless by comparison, and not just other sci ships.
So you are trying to build an escort with a sci ship. Should work but why dont you simply take an escort? Like the multi vector? Isn't there even some kind of fleet version of it with 5 tac consoles? In the end you trade your tac com for a sci com. Dont know if you really need that sci com, I think in an escort the tac might be better. Also you do have less turn rate and are missing one weapon slot.
The way I see it the vesta would be an escort with less dmg but one hangar. Don't know if its worth the trade. The vesta will provide some variety but I don't really think it will be that op. It might be in line with lockbox ships or the oddy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
there is no getting around it, its a monstrously op mary sue ship that makes a significant number of other ships in the game worthless by comparison, and not just other sci ships.
I understand you rage but please just take a moment to think about it. The ship is certainly good no doubt but it's no way near what you are imagining.
It will be n very nice ship to pug in and probably good in farming randoms.

As someone else mentioned the Kar'fi. Look at the stats. It has a base turn of 8, thats more than a normal fed cruiser. It has 34,500 hull and an ok shield mod. Even a console that makes it untargetable. It has 2 hangars with unique pets, pets have tric mines and torps and even have chroniton torps as well.
So you have sci ship that can do as much dmg as an excelsior with pets as well and a special console. Sounds op? Well its a nice ship but I suppose you have seen it, it is nothing to worry about.

Stats can be misleading and I know you do not trust cryptic after all they have released. But please just wait and see. I really don't think it will be that bad and I am pretty sure it won't kick the bug of it's op throne.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,256
# 25
11-10-2012, 07:17 AM
Compared with any other ship in its class the Vesta is overpowered, by the Dev's own admission. If you believe it is not, then I would honestly suggest you take a listen to the podcast by the developer who designed it. You really need to just listen to the first 2 minutes to be convinced.

The set is fluff. Take the fluff away, and put a proper build in its place, and this ship outclasses most ships both in and out of it's class.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,256
# 26
11-10-2012, 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
It really does not have escort spike ability. The minus 1 DHC makes a pretty big difference by itself for spike. Then add to that no attack pattern alpha, no fleet attack pattern (or w/e it's called), no attack pattern omega 3 or CRF3, no go down fighting. It will be the most offensively oriented Sci ship for sure, but there's no way it will have anything close to a fully buffed alpha strike from an escort.

Then again, I'm thinking of a sci/sci. If a tac was in it, it would be higher, but still not escort high. I think the difference between CRF3 + APO1 + APD1 + 4 DHC's vs. CRF2 + APD1 + 3 DHC's (or APO1 + CRF1 + APD1 + 3 DHC's) can't be overlooked. Any way you slice it, the escort is going to have substantially more spike potential.

However, it will still be a rival for best ship in the game, mainly because of its versatility.
It has all the ability to completely and utter negate the alpha strike potential in addition to huge defense reserves to come back fighting. And when it does, DHC + Danubes + SS + VM + FBP + SNB will obliterate any opponent. But, I guess we will just have to wait and keep an eye on the Q's and forum for potential problems.

The problem is not really just this ship...

One needs to see the bigger picture.

5x TAC Console cloaking defiants + Armitage (Danubes) + Atrox (Danubes) + MVAM (pets) + Vesta (Danubes)

See the problem now?

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 11-10-2012 at 07:25 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 757
# 27
11-10-2012, 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Compared with any other ship in its class the Vesta is overpowered, by the Dev's own admission. If you believe it is not, then I would honestly suggest you take a listen to the podcast by the developer who designed it. You really need to just listen to the first 2 minutes to be convinced.

The set is fluff. Take the fluff away, and put a proper build in its place, and this ship outclasses most ships both in and out of it's class.
What did they say regarding it being OP?
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 28
11-10-2012, 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
If you start firing DHC's once you're within 10 km you're doing it wrong. Also, you don't need to use APO3 to evade FBP or a ship with just 3 DHC's and no attack patterns.
Not really, firepower should always be fully used even on 10km away. You probably mean using any valuable buffs which have a limited cooldown (Including RF's) are supposed to be used within 3~km for maximized Cannon effect.

For the rest you simply maximize your total damage output by simply spamming your DHC's no matter the range.

Last edited by marctraiderz; 11-10-2012 at 09:02 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,718
# 29
11-10-2012, 09:39 AM
I just love how our testing and feedback was used to "balance" the vesta
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 361
# 30
11-10-2012, 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Compared with any other ship in its class the Vesta is overpowered, by the Dev's own admission. If you believe it is not, then I would honestly suggest you take a listen to the podcast by the developer who designed it. You really need to just listen to the first 2 minutes to be convinced.

The set is fluff. Take the fluff away, and put a proper build in its place, and this ship outclasses most ships both in and out of it's class.
Do you have a link to the podcast by any chance?

Now the vesta will be strong ship, no doubt. If it is really better than the orb or the wells/korath depends what you want with it I suppose. The orb still has 2 lt cmdr which makes for a nice healer for example and the wells/korath has a very good console in addition to more turn, hp and shield.

As for the danubes, let's hope they manage to nerf them enough. Personally I never really had any lag problems because of spam. So I don't care if I fight a 5v5 carrier battle. The only problem is the tr.

The vesta will be strongest weapon based sci ship. But not everyone uses a sci ship just to shoot stuff. If you want to tbr the enemy healer away form the group, if you tbr an escort away from a friend, if you are just healing, if you want chroniton torps and torp spread for debuffs etc...

Lets just wait how the new concept turns out. There will be plenty of time to cry and call for nerfs once we actually tested this ship and have seen it in action. While I do intend to try out the vesta it won't stop me from playing my klinks.

Personally I would remove one console or the hangar. I can't see why the put 10 consoles and a hangar on it.

Also I am happy to see that they still release good ships in the zen store and not only in lockboxes.
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