Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 31
11-10-2012, 11:06 AM
So this ship can do the job of an escort and science vessel... Big whoop, the bug can do the job of an escort and a cruiser. The wells can do the job of a science vessel and a cruiser. This ship isn't over powered. Ill tell you how to kill it right now. a feedback pulse 2/3, a TBR 1/2 or a rapid fire 2/3 or a DEM 1/2 and APB/D 2/3 or a shutdown build with aoe extras to Deal with spam.Congrats there is a way to take out low hull ships. It's not that over powered. Instead of complaining and griping about it. Find a weakness and exploit it. There is no god ship/ only god like players. Your good or bad depending on your skill not your ship.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 35
# 32
11-10-2012, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
It has all the ability to completely and utter negate the alpha strike potential in addition to huge defense reserves to come back fighting. And when it does, DHC + Danubes + SS + VM + FBP + SNB will obliterate any opponent. But, I guess we will just have to wait and keep an eye on the Q's and forum for potential problems.

The problem is not really just this ship...

One needs to see the bigger picture.

5x TAC Console cloaking defiants + Armitage (Danubes) + Atrox (Danubes) + MVAM (pets) + Vesta (Danubes)

See the problem now?
I see your problem and I see the solution... another 5000 zen ship set with the three piece bonus making you immune to carrier pets. Bam problem solved get your wallet ready....
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 85
# 33
11-10-2012, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpack12c View Post
So this ship can do the job of an escort and science vessel... Big whoop, the bug can do the job of an escort and a cruiser. The wells can do the job of a science vessel and a cruiser. This ship isn't over powered. Ill tell you how to kill it right now. a feedback pulse 2/3, a TBR 1/2 or a rapid fire 2/3 or a DEM 1/2 and APB/D 2/3 or a shutdown build with aoe extras to Deal with spam.Congrats there is a way to take out low hull ships. It's not that over powered. Instead of complaining and griping about it. Find a weakness and exploit it. There is no god ship/ only god like players. Your good or bad depending on your skill not your ship.
This.

The ship's not even out yet and sub-par players are already screaming for a nerf. If you want a game where only YOU can win, go play little big planet or some such.

Personally I'm looking forward to the Vesta because it's a jack of all trades and will require a different playstyle. Screaming 'nerf' before you've even seen one is the last resort of the unimaginative.
***The above ramblings are, as always, my own opinion. Based on my experiences and interpreted by my mind, they by no means reflect the universal truth (unless coincidentally). Peace.***
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 34
11-10-2012, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormbringer77 View Post
This.

The ship's not even out yet and sub-par players are already screaming for a nerf. If you want a game where only YOU can win, go play little big planet or some such.

Personally I'm looking forward to the Vesta because it's a jack of all trades and will require a different playstyle. Screaming 'nerf' before you've even seen one is the last resort of the unimaginative.
I can't tell are you agreeing with me.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 144
# 35
11-10-2012, 12:14 PM
Who cares if it is anymore, the BUGS have thrown all the balance out, Craptic and there pay to win lockbox ships have ruined and killed any pvp in this game, Kerrat is a complete joke. Sorry to say it but go elsewhere for pvp this game will never have it right as its now PTW. Or gamble hundreds to win.

Only way to start getting any decent level in it is to ban lockbox ships from pvp.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,168
# 36
11-10-2012, 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aetam1 View Post
Yes torps and a dbb fail sometimes but they wont fail a whole match long. Also you notice the missing dps compared to 4 DHC if your dbb/torps fail.
Also yes sci ships lack spike but again a fleet sci recon with a dbb bo could also deal spike if it hits. We will see if this turns out to be a problem. Just stay calm and wait.
Also sci can deal quite some dmg with good timed torps or tric mines at the moment. Or with sci powers if there are some working at the time, like PSW once did.
a periodic BO2 is spike now? oh really? didn't know that. i though spike was damage that completely overcame a shield facing in the first weapon cycle and dealt hull damage, that someone has to fire off 3 or 4 abilities to try to survive, all over about 10 seconds. not a bunch of near harmless hits and 1 hit that chunks a couple thousand shield hitpoints. the vesta will deal about 4 times as much damage as a recons, and about 8 times as much useful damage as a recons, it will deal more useful damage then nearly all fed cruisers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aetam1 View Post
So you are trying to build an escort with a sci ship. Should work but why dont you simply take an escort? Like the multi vector? Isn't there even some kind of fleet version of it with 5 tac consoles? In the end you trade your tac com for a sci com. Dont know if you really need that sci com, I think in an escort the tac might be better. Also you do have less turn rate and are missing one weapon slot.
The way I see it the vesta would be an escort with less dmg but one hangar. Don't know if its worth the trade. The vesta will provide some variety but I don't really think it will be that op. It might be in line with lockbox ships or the oddy.
the vesta comes from the factory a sci ship built like an escort. its a sci ship that has 100% of the sci debuff potential, and 3/4 an escorts damage potential. this is so much more ideal then a MVAM escort to a sci its laughable. runabout pets, sci commander station, 3 DHC running off your aux, SA, subsytem targeting, commander sci station, 2 AtB capability, masivly beter at tanking, can run EWP, can equip APO, its got everything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aetam1 View Post
I understand you rage but please just take a moment to think about it. The ship is certainly good no doubt but it's no way near what you are imagining.
It will be n very nice ship to pug in and probably good in farming randoms.
i have spent far to many moments thinking about it. there is no other conclusion to come to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aetam1 View Post
As someone else mentioned the Kar'fi. Look at the stats. It has a base turn of 8, thats more than a normal fed cruiser. It has 34,500 hull and an ok shield mod. Even a console that makes it untargetable. It has 2 hangars with unique pets, pets have tric mines and torps and even have chroniton torps as well.
So you have sci ship that can do as much dmg as an excelsior with pets as well and a special console. Sounds op? Well its a nice ship but I suppose you have seen it, it is nothing to worry about.
its a glass cannon, it lacks runabouts and SA, its shield mod is MUCH less, its not even close to as maneuverable, etc... still a very dangerous ship of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aetam1 View Post
Stats can be misleading and I know you do not trust cryptic after all they have released. But please just wait and see. I really don't think it will be that bad and I am pretty sure it won't kick the bug of it's op throne.
stats are not misleading. if you know what they actually mean, you know exactly how dangerous something will be.
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Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 37
11-10-2012, 02:20 PM
is about overcoming and finding ways to win. If you spent as much time planning and running numbers as you did stressing and complaining you would know that the ship has a lot of weaknesses
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,735
# 38
11-10-2012, 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpack12c View Post
is about overcoming and finding ways to win. If you spent as much time planning and running numbers as you did stressing and complaining you would know that the ship has a lot of weaknesses
uh who are you? wanna sit in match with a coordinated team of siphon drones and think about how to overcome them?

The vesta is BS op, it's as simple as this.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 363
# 39
11-10-2012, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
a periodic BO2 is spike now? oh really? didn't know that. i though spike was damage that completely overcame a shield facing in the first weapon cycle and dealt hull damage, that someone has to fire off 3 or 4 abilities to try to survive, all over about 10 seconds. not a bunch of near harmless hits and 1 hit that chunks a couple thousand shield hitpoints. the vesta will deal about 4 times as much damage as a recons, and about 8 times as much useful damage as a recons, it will deal more useful damage then nearly all fed cruisers.
Ok so you are saying a vesta can overcome a shield facing? With 3 DHC and 4 tac consoles? Really?
I do not have any numbers of 3 dbb with bo (any maybe a weapons bat) vs 3 dhc and crf in 10sec. Would be interesting to see. I think the main prob with bo is that it doesn't always hit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post

the vesta comes from the factory a sci ship built like an escort. its a sci ship that has 100% of the sci debuff potential, and 3/4 an escorts damage potential. this is so much more ideal then a MVAM escort to a sci its laughable. runabout pets, sci commander station, 3 DHC running off your aux, SA, subsytem targeting, commander sci station, 2 AtB capability, masivly beter at tanking, can run EWP, can equip APO, its got everything.
Yep it got many things. But not all at once. I would not run aux cannons and atb at the same time for example.
As for tanking, its worse than an orb or a wells/korath.
Yes it is a sci ship that could deal quite a lot of dmg. But if you run it as a sci you don't have 2/3 of an escorts dmg. You are not only missing the one DHC you are also missing buffs. If you want to run 2 atb you have to use your universal lt cmdr as eng. That means you only got CRF1 and no other attack patterns.
Also if you run a atb build you don't have many doff slots left to buff sci. Like vm doffs or tbr doffs.
Oh and you can't use subystem targeting with DHC's. Well you can mount a beam in the rear but you have to turn your cannons away to use it.
Oh and EWP, APO and 2 atb works on orb and wells/korath as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i have spent far to many moments thinking about it. there is no other conclusion to come to.
Well I disagree but I suppose time will tell who is right. I do hope i am right, otherwise we might be in trouble :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
its a glass cannon, it lacks runabouts and SA, its shield mod is MUCH less, its not even close to as maneuverable, etc... still a very dangerous ship of course.
Yes. I only wanted to point out that it sounds better on paper than it really is. I still think/hope it is the same for the vesta.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
stats are not misleading. if you know what they actually mean, you know exactly how dangerous something will be.
Yes and no. While being versatile is an advantage for a ship it still can't do everything at the same time. An universal doff means a choice, that is an advantage but you still only have one doff at a time. Some times things really sound more scary than they are. I say let's wait and see, test a bit and provide feedback that hopefully is not ignored.
But threads that call something "uber overpowered" before we got a chance to test something are not helping I would say.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 40
11-10-2012, 03:01 PM
Overcoming a shield facing has less to do with Tac consoles (bar maybe an extreme like the Gal-R or something) and far more to do with timing, buff stacking and your front-loaded arc (timing is a big part of why DHCs are so great, by the way). Resists and heals can be taken to such extremes in this game that no amount of burst in the world will overcome it, hence you have to wait until an opponent is vulnerable.

I can't say for certain whether the Besta can burst or not in high-stress situations... the loss of a forward weapon is a big deal, but who knows without testing it really. I would say with fair certainty that it can still at least put out a lot of pain if the player's good.

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